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The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-Length Discourses) Volume IV

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209. The Discourse to Vekhanassa

The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-length Discourses), Volume IV Venerable sir, now, when you should be acting as a teacher, are you wanting to become a disciple of the renunciant Gotama? Venerable sir, [if you consider that] you should not be acting as a teacher, then become a disciple of the renunciant Gotama!305

In this way the disciples of the heterodox practitioner Sakuludāyī and his companions in the holy life prevented the heterodox practitioner Sakuludāyī from practicing the holy life under the World-honored One. Thus spoke the Buddha. Having heard what the Buddha said, the heterodox practitioner Sakuludāyī was delighted and received it respectfully. 209. The Discourse to Vekhanassa306

Thus have I heard. At one time the Buddha was dwelling at Sāvatthī, staying in Jeta's Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika's Park.

At that time the heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa, while wandering about,307 came to where the Buddha was and, after exchanging greetings, inquired, "Gotama, the supreme appearance? The supreme appearance, Gotama, the supreme appearance?"

The World-honored One asked, "Kaccāna, what appearance?" The heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa replied:

Gotama, if no other appearance is superior, more sublime, more excellent than that appearance, then, Gotama, that appearance is the most excellent, that appearance is supreme!

The World-honored One said:

Kaccāna, this is just as if someone were to speak like this: "Whichever woman is the most beautiful in the country, I want her!" Suppose another man were to ask him, "Sir, regarding this most beautiful woman in the country, do you know her family name, her given name, and her birth status? Is she tall or short, stout or slim? Is she of light [complexion], or dark, or neither light nor dark? Is she a woman of the warrior class, or of the brahmin, or of the merchant, or of the worker class? Is she in the eastern region, the southern, the western, or the northern region?"—and that man were to answer, "I don't know!"

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And it is as if that other man were to ask him further, "Sir, regarding this most beautiful woman in the country whom you have not seen, you do not know her family name, her given name, or her birth status. [You do not know] if she is tall or short, stout or slim; if she is of light [complexion], or dark, or neither light nor dark; if she is a woman of the warrior class, or of the brahmin, or of the merchant, or of the worker class; if she is in the eastern region, the southern, the western, or the northern region— and yet you make this statement: 'I want that woman!'" In the same way, Kaccāna, you make this statement: "That sublime appearance is the most sublime appearance. That appearance is the most excellent. That appearance is supreme." But when I ask you about [the nature of] that appearance, you do not know.

The heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa said:

Gotama, just as when the most excellent gold, superbly refined, polished, and rendered pure by a goldsmith skilled in refining, is placed on a white cotton cloth in the sunshine, its most sublime appearance glows and shines with a clear light. In the same way, Gotama, I declare an appearance that surpasses [all other] appearances. That is the most excellent appearance. That is the supreme appearance.

The World-honored One said:

Kaccāna, I will now ask you a question. Answer in accordance with your understanding. Regarding that most excellent gold, which has been superbly refined, polished, and rendered pure by a goldsmith skilled in refining, and is placed on a white cotton cloth in the sunshine so that its most sublime appearance glows and shines with a clear light—Kaccāna, how do you think it compares with a glowworm glowing and shining with a clear light in the darkness of the night? Of these [two] clear lights which is supreme? Which is the more excellent?

The heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa replied, "Gotama, the clear light of the glowworm is supreme and more excellent than the clear light of the superbly refined and polished gold."

The World-honored One asked:

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The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-length Discourses), Volume IV Kaccāna, what do you think of a glowworm glowing and shining with a clear light in the darkness of the night, compared with a burning oil lamp glowing and shining with a clear light in the darkness of the night? Of these [two] clear lights, which is supreme? Which is the more excellent? The heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa replied, "Gotama, the clear light of the burning oil lamp is supreme, more excellent than the clear light of the glowworm."

The World-honored One asked:

Kaccāna, what do you think of a burning oil lamp glowing and shining with a clear light in the darkness of the night, compared with a great burning wood fire glowing and shining with a clear light in the darkness of the night? Of these [two] clear lights, which is supreme? Which is the more excellent? The heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa replied: "Gotama, the clear light of the great burning wood fire is supreme, more excellent than the clear light of the burning oil lamp."

The World-honored One asked:

Kaccāna, what do you think of a great burning wood fire glowing and shining with a clear light in the darkness of the night, compared with the morning star glowing and shining with a clear light toward dawn in a cloudless [sky]? Of these [two] clear lights, which is supreme? Which is the more excellent?

The heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa replied, "Gotama, the clear light of the morning star is supreme, more excellent than the light of the great burning wood fire."

The World-honored One asked:

Kaccāna, what do you think of the morning star glowing and shining with a clear light toward dawn in a cloudless [sky], compared with the light of the resplendent moon in a cloudless [sky] at midnight, glowing and shining with a clear light? Of these [two] clear lights, which is supreme? Which is the more excellent?

The heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa replied, "Gotama, the clear light 286

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of the resplendent moon is supreme, more excellent than the light of the morning star."

The World-honored One asked:

Kaccāna, what do you think of the light of the resplendent moon in a cloudless [sky] at midnight glowing and shining with a clear light, compared with the light of the resplendent mid-autumn sun, glowing and shining with a clear light in a cloudless [sky]? Of these [two] clear lights, which is supreme? Which is the more excellent?"

The heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa replied, "Gotama, the clear light of the resplendent sun is supreme, more excellent than the light of the resplendent moon." The World-honored One said:

Kaccāna, there are many devas. Now, even though this sun and moon are of such great supernormal power, such great might, such great merit, such great majesty, yet their clear light cannot compare with the clear light of these devas. In former times I used to meet and converse with those devas, and what I said was agreeable to those devas. Nevertheless, I do not declare this: "That appearance surpasses [all other] appearances. That is the most excellent appearance. That is the supreme appearance." But you, Kaccāna, regarding the most lowly light inferior to a glowworm, declare: "That appearance surpasses [all other] appearances. That is the most excellent appearance. That is the supreme appearance!" And when asked about [the nature of] it, you do not know! Then the heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa, having been criticized to his face by the World-honored One, was upset and worried. He hung his head in silence, unable to reply, as if immersed in thought. Then, having criticized [Vekhanassa] to his face, the World-honored One sought to cheer him up, saying:

Kaccāna, there are the five strands of sensuality, which are delightful, thought about pleasurably by the mind, and connected with sensuality, [namely]: visible forms known by the eye, sounds known by the ear, odors known by the nose, flavors known by the tongue, and tangibles known by the body. 287

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The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-length Discourses), Volume IV Kaccāna, visible forms may be desirable or undesirable. If a certain person finds this particular visible form agreeable, commendable, [conducive to] joy, fulfilling, satisfying, then [for that person] this one is supreme, more excellent than other types of form which are not desired, not wanted, not aspired to, not sought after. This is the most excellent, the supreme type of form [for that person]. Kaccāna, it is the same with sounds, odors, flavors, and tangibles. Kaccāna, tangibles may be desirable or undesirable. If a certain person finds this particular tangible to be agreeable, commendable, conducive to joy, fulfilling, satisfying, then [for that person] this one is supreme, more excellent than other types of tangible which are not desired, not wanted, not aspired to, not sought after. This is the most excellent, the supreme type of tangible [for that person]. Then the heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa extended his hands with joined palms toward the Buddha and said:

It is wonderful, Gotama. It is remarkable how the renunciant Gotama has, by countless skillful means, explained to me sensual pleasures and the foremost sensual pleasure. Gotama, just as a grass fire may start a wood fire, or a wood fire may start a grass fire, in the same way the renunciant Gotama has, by various skillful means, explained to me sensual pleasures and the foremost sensual pleasure.308

The World-honored One said:

Stop, stop, Kaccāna, you have long been of a different view [from me], of a different belief, [seeking] a different type of happiness, a different type of pleasure, a different way of thinking; consequently, you do not fully understand the meaning of what I am saying.

Kaccāna, there are disciples of mine who do not lie down to sleep during the first and last watches of the night, but with right concentration and right intention cultivate the requisites of the path and come to know as it really is: "Birth has been ended, the holy life has been established, what had to be done has been done, there will not be another experiencing of existence." Only they would fully understand what I am saying.

At this the heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa became angry with the Buddha. Dislike and disapproval arose [in him]. He wanted to slander the World-honored 288

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One, wanted to slight the World-honored One; in order to slander the Worldhonored One, in order to slight the World-honored One, he said: Gotama, there are renunciants and brahmins who do not know the past world, do not know the future world, and do not know countless births and deaths, yet claim to have attained final knowledge [thus]: "Birth has been ended, the holy life has been established, what had to be done has been done; there will not be another experiencing of existence; I know this as it really is." Gotama, I think like this, "These renunciants and brahmins who do not know the past world, do not know the future world, and do not know countless births and deaths—how is it that they claim to have attained final knowledge [thus]: 'Birth has been ended, the holy life has been established, what had to be done has been done; there will not be another experiencing of existence; I know it as it really is'?" Then the World-honored One reflected:

This heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa became angry with me. Dislike and disapproval arose [in him]. He wanted to slander me, wanted to slight me. He slandered me and slighted me by saying "Gotama, there are renunciants and brahmins who do not know the past world, do not know the future world, and do not know countless births and deaths, yet claim to have attained final knowledge [thus]: 'Birth has been ended, the holy life has been established, what had to be done has been done; there will not be another experiencing of existence; I know it as it really is.' Gotama, I think like this, 'These renunciants and brahmins who do not know the past world, do not know the future world, and do not know countless births and deaths—how is it that they claim to have attained final knowledge [thus]: "Birth has been ended, the holy life has been established, what had to be done has been done; there will not be another experiencing of existence; I know it as it really is"'?"

Knowing this, the World-honored One said:

Kaccāna, if there are renunciants and brahmins who do not know the past world, do not know the future world, and do not know countless births and deaths, yet claim to have attained final knowledge [thus]: "Birth has been ended, the holy life has been established, what had to be done has 289

210. The Discourse by the Nun Dhammanandā

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been done; there will not be another experiencing of existence; I know it as it really is"; then they should say this, "Let be the past world; let be the future world!"309

Kaccāna, I [too] speak like this, "Let be the past world; let be the future world!" Even without recalling a single [past] life, if a monk disciple of mine comes to me, one who is not a fraud, not a deceiver, but is of upright character, then I teach him. If he practices in accordance with what I teach him, then he will certainly come to know the true Dharma. Kaccāna, it is just as with an infant boy, young and tender, lying on his back, whose hands and feet have been bound by his parents. Later when he has grown up and all his faculties are developed, his parents unbind his hands and feet; but he recalls only the time of being liberated,310 and does not recall the time of being in bondage.

In the same way, Kaccāna, I speak like this, "Let be the past world, let be the future world!" Even without recalling a single [past] life, if a monk disciple of mine comes to me, one who is not a fraud, not a deceiver, but is of upright character, then I teach him. If he practices in accordance with what I teach him, then he will certainly come to know the true Dharma. Kaccāna, it is just as one might use ten or twenty or thirty or forty or fifty or sixty bundles of wood to keep a fire blazing brightly,312 and one sees that fire blazing. Later, if no one supplies more grass, wood, chaff, or rags, then when the original firewood is exhausted and no more is supplied, it will soon go out for lack of fuel.313 In the same way, Kaccāna, I speak like this, "Let be the past world; let be the future world!" Even without recalling a single [past] life, if a monk disciple of mine comes who is not a fraud, not a deceiver, but is of upright 290

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character, then I teach him. If he practices in accordance with what I teach him, then he will certainly come to know the true Dharma. When this teaching was being given, there arose in the heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa the stainless dustless eye of the Dharma in regard to all phenomena.314 Then the heterodox practitioner Vekhanassa saw the Dharma, attained the Dharma, realized the totally pure Dharma. There was [now] no other teacher for him; he would no longer rely on others. Having cut off doubt, crossed over confusion, become free from hesitation, he was established in the realization of the fruit. He had attained intrepidity in the Dharma of the World-honored One. He paid homage with his head at the Buddha's feet and said: World-honored One, I wish to obtain the going forth from the Buddha to train in the path. [May I receive] the full ordination and become a monk to practice the holy life!

The World-honored One said, "Welcome,315 monk! Practice the holy life!" The heterodox practitioner obtained from the Buddha the going forth to train in the path. He received the full ordination and became a monk to practice the holy life. The venerable Vekhanassa, having gone forth to train in the path, having received the full ordination, came to know the Dharma and see the Dharma . . . up to . . . attained arahantship. Thus spoke the Buddha. Having heard what the Buddha said, the venerable Vekhanassa and the monks were delighted and received it respectfully. 210. The Discourse by the Nun

Dhammanandā316

Thus have I heard. At one time the Buddha was dwelling at Sāvatthī, staying in Jeta's Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika's Park.

At that time the female lay disciple Visākhā approached the nun Dhammanandā, 317 paid homage with her head at her feet, stepped back, and sat to one side. She said to the nun Dhammanandā, "Noble one, I would like to ask a question. Am I permitted to ask it?"

The nun Dhammanandā replied, "Visākhā, ask what you wish to ask. Having heard it, I will consider it." Then the female lay disciple Visākhā asked, "Noble one, we say 'personality, personality.' What is this 'personality'?" 291

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The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-length Discourses), Volume IV The nun Dhammanandā replied:

The World-honored One has explained that the five aggregates of clinging are [one's] personality, the bodily form aggregate of clinging, the feeling . . . perception . . . formation . . . consciousness aggregate of clinging—these are the five aggregates of clinging explained by the Worldhonored One. On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, what is personality view?"

The nun Dhammanandā replied:

An unlearned ignorant worldling does not visit good spiritual friends, does not know the noble Dharma, and is not disciplined in the noble Dharma. He sees the body as the self, or he sees the self as possessing the body, or he sees the body as contained within the self, or he sees the self as contained within the body. He sees feeling . . . perception . . . formations . . . He sees consciousness as the self, or he sees the self as possessing consciousness, or he sees consciousness as contained within the self, or he sees the self as contained within consciousness. This is personality view. On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, what is absence of personality view?" The nun Dhammanandā replied:

A learned noble disciple visits good spiritual friends, knows the noble Dharma, and is disciplined in the noble Dharma. He does not see the body as the self, he does not see the self as possessing the body, he does not see the body as contained within the self, he does not see the self as contained within the body. He does not see feeling . . . perception . . . formations . . . he does not see consciousness as the self, he does not see the self as possessing consciousness, he does not see consciousness as contained within the self, he does not see the self as contained within consciousness. This is absence of personality view. 292

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It is the remainderless cutting off of clinging to the body aggregate, its abandonment, disgorging, eradication, nonpollution, cessation, appeasement, disappearance; it is the remainderless cutting off of clinging to the feeling . . . perception . . . formations . . . consciousness aggregate, its abandonment, disgorging, eradication, nonpollution, cessation, appeasement, disappearance—this is the cessation of personality.318 On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further:

Noble one, the aggregates are spoken of as "the aggregates of clinging" or the aggregates are spoken of as "the clinging aggregates." [Now], is it that the aggregates are the same as the clinging aggregates, and the clinging aggregates are the same as the aggregates? Or is it that the aggregates and the clinging aggregates are different?

The nun Dhammanandā replied:

It may be that the aggregates are the same as the clinging aggregates, or it may be that the aggregates are not the same as the clinging aggregates. When are the aggregates the same as the clinging aggregates? If with regard to the body there are taints and grasping; if with regard to feeling . . . perception . . . formations . . . if with regard to consciousness there are taints and grasping, then this is when the aggregates are the same as the clinging aggregates.

When are the aggregates not the same as the clinging aggregates? If with regard to the body there are no taints and no grasping; if with regard to feeling . . . perception . . . formations . . . if with regard to consciousness there are no taints and no grasping, then this is when the aggregates are not the same as the clinging aggregates.

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The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-length Discourses), Volume IV On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, what is the noble eightfold path?" The nun Dhammanandā replied, "The noble eightfold path is right view . . . up to . . . right concentration; these are the eight. This is the noble eightfold path." On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, is the noble eightfold path conditioned?" The nun Dhammanandā replied, "It is like this, the noble eightfold path is conditioned."

On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, how many groups are there?" The nun Dhammanandā replied, "There are three groups: the group of virtue, the group of concentration, and the group of wisdom." On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, does the noble eightfold path encompass the three groups, or do the three groups encompass the noble eightfold path?" The nun Dhammanandā replied:

The noble eightfold path does not encompass the three groups; the three groups encompass the noble eightfold path. Right speech, right action, and right livelihood—these three path factors are encompassed by the noble group of virtue. Right mindfulness and right concentration—these two path factors are encompassed by the noble group of concentration. Right view, right intention, and right effort—these three path factors are encompassed by the noble group of wisdom.319 Thus the noble eightfold path does not encompass the three groups; [rather] the three groups encompass the noble eightfold path. On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It 294

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is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, is there a counterpart to cessation?" The nun Dhammanandā replied, "Cessation has no counterpart." On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, how many factors does the first absorption have?" The nun Dhammanandā replied:

The first absorption has five factors: [directed] awareness, [sustained] contemplation, joy, happiness, and unification of the mind. These are the five factors of the first absorption.320

Noble one, what is concentration? What is the sign of concentration? What is the strength of concentration? What is the achievement of concentration?321 What is the cultivation of concentration? The nun Dhammanandā replied:

If the wholesome mind attains unification, this is concentration. The four establishments of mindfulness are the sign of concentration. The four right efforts are the strength of concentration. The four bases of supernormal power are the achievement of concentration. If one cultivates all of these wholesome states,322 repeatedly and energetically cultivating them, then this is the cultivation of concentration.

Noble one, how many are the factors of the living body upon whose 295

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The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-length Discourses), Volume IV perishing the body will be discarded in a cemetery, insentient like a piece of wood?

The nun Dhammanandā replied:

There are three factors of the living body upon whose perishing the body will be discarded in a cemetery, insentient like a piece of wood. What are the three? One: vitality, two: heat, and three: consciousness. These are the three factors of the living body on whose perishing the body will be discarded in a cemetery, insentient like a piece of wood. On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, what is the difference between one who is dead and one who has attained the concentration of cessation?"323 The nun Dhammanandā replied:

The vitality of a dead person has completely ceased, his heat has dissipated, and his faculties have broken down. The vitality of a monk who has entered the concentration of cessation has not completely ceased, his heat has not dissipated, and his faculties have not broken down. This is the difference between a dead person and one who has attained the concentration of cessation. On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further:

Noble one, what is the difference between one who has attained the concentration of cessation and one who has attained the concentration of [neither-perception-nor-]nonperception?324 The nun Dhammanandā replied:

[When] a monk enters the concentration of cessation, perception and knowing cease; [when] he enters the concentration of [neither-perception-nor-]nonperception, perception and knowing do not cease. This is 296

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the difference between one who has attained the concentration of cessation and one who has attained the concentration of [neither-perception-nor-] nonperception.

Noble one, what is the difference between one who emerges from the concentration of cessation and one who emerges from the concentration of [neither-perception-nor-]nonperception?325

The nun Dhammanandā replied:

When a monk emerges from the concentration of cessation, he does not think, "I am emerging from the concentration of cessation." When a monk emerges from the concentration of [neither-perception-nor-]nonperception, he thinks, "Do I have perceptions or do I not have perceptions?" This is the difference between one who emerges from the concentration of cessation and one who emerges from the concentration of [neither-perception-nor-]nonperception. On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, when a monk enters the concentration of cessation, does he think: 'I am entering the concentration of cessation'?" The nun Dhammanandā replied:

When a monk enters the concentration of cessation, he does not think, "I am entering the concentration of cessation." Instead, it is because he has previously cultivated the mind in this way that it proceeds accordingly. On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, when a monk emerges from the concentration of cessation, does he think: 'I am emerging from the concentration of cessation'?" 297

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The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-length Discourses), Volume IV The nun Dhammanandā replied:

When a monk emerges from the concentration of cessation, he does not think, "I am emerging from the concentration of cessation."' Instead it is because of the body, the six senses, and the life faculty that he emerges from this concentration.

Noble one, [when] a monk has emerged from the concentration of cessation, in what does his mind delight? Whither does it tend? Whither does it incline?

The nun Dhammanandā replied:

[When] a monk has emerged from the concentration of cessation, his mind delights in seclusion, it tends toward seclusion, it inclines toward seclusion.326

There are three feelings: pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and feeling that is neither pleasant nor painful. Because of what do they exist? Because of contact they exist.

The nun Dhammanandā replied:

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What arises born of being touched by a pleasant contact and is felt as bodily or mental pleasure and wellness, such feeling is pleasant feeling. What arises born of being touched by a painful contact and is felt as bodily or mental pain and unwellness, such feeling is painful feeling. What arises born of being touched by a neutral contact and is felt as bodily or mental neutrality and neither wellness nor unwellness, such feeling is neutral feeling. On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further:

Noble one, as to pleasant feeling, what is pleasant? What is painful? What is its impermanence? What is its danger? What is its underlying tendency? As to painful feeling, what is pleasant? What is painful? What is its impermanence? What is its danger? What is its underlying tendency? As to neutral feeling, what is pleasant? What is painful? What is its impermanence? What is its danger? What is its underlying tendency?327 The nun Dhammanandā replied:

As to pleasant feeling, its arising is pleasant and its persistence is pleasant, its change is painful, its impermanence is the danger, its underlying tendency is desire. As to painful feeling, its arising is painful and its persistence is painful, its change is pleasant, its impermanence is the danger, its underlying tendency is aversion. As to neutral feeling, not knowing it is painful, knowing it is pleasant,328 its impermanence is [the danger of] change, its underlying tendency is ignorance.

Noble one, do all pleasant feelings have the underlying tendency to desire? Do all painful feelings have the underlying tendency to aversion? Do all neutral feelings have the underlying tendency to ignorance? 299

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The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-length Discourses), Volume IV The nun Dhammanandā replied:

Not all pleasant feelings have the underlying tendency to desire. Not all painful feelings have the underlying tendency to aversion. Not all neutral feelings have the underlying tendency to ignorance.

How do pleasant feelings not have the underlying tendency to desire? When secluded from sensual desires, secluded from evil and unwholesome states, with [directed] awareness and [sustained] contemplation, with rapture and happiness born of seclusion, a monk dwells having attained the first absorption. This is [when] pleasant feelings do not have the underlying tendency to desire. Why is that? Because desire is being abandoned. How do painful feelings not have the underlying tendency to aversion? When, on seeking the joy of supreme liberation, that seeking and aspiration worries one again and again, giving rise to sadness and affliction. This is [when] painful feelings do not have the underlying tendency to aversion. Why is that? Because aversion is being abandoned.

How do neutral feelings not have the underlying tendency to ignorance? [When] with the cessation of pleasure and the cessation of pain, and with the earlier cessation of rapture and displeasure, with neither-pain-norpleasure, and with purity of mindfulness and equanimity, one dwells having attained the fourth absorption. This is [when] neutral feelings do not have the underlying tendency to ignorance. Why is that? Because ignorance is being abandoned.

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The nun Dhammanandā replied, "The counterpart to pleasant feeling and painful feeling is neutral feeling."

On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, what is the counterpart to ignorance?" The nun Dhammanandā replied, "The counterpart to ignorance is knowledge." On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, what is the counterpart to knowledge?" The nun Dhammanandā replied, "The counterpart to knowledge is nirvana."330 On hearing this, the female lay disciple Visākhā praised her, saying, "It is well, it is well, noble one!" Having praised her, the female lay disciple Visākhā was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] she asked further, "Noble one, what is the counterpart to nirvana?" The nun Dhammanandā replied:

You are wanting to ask about a matter without limit. However, for the matter you are asking about you cannot get to the limit on my side. Nirvana is without counterpart. Nirvana, being without bonds, transcends bonds. It is the complete cessation of bonds. It is that for the sake of which one practices the holy life under the World-honored One.

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The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-length Discourses), Volume IV Then, having heard what the nun Dhammanandā said, the female lay disciple Visākhā received it well and retained it well. Having memorized it well, she rose from her seat, paid homage with her head at the feet of the nun Dhammanandā, circumambulated her three times, and left. Then, not long after the female lay disciple Visākhā had left, the nun Dhammanandā approached the Buddha, paid homage with her head at the Buddha's feet, stepped back, and sat to one side.331 She told the Buddha the whole conversation with the female lay disciple Visākhā. She extended her hands with joined palms toward the Buddha and said: World-honored One, speaking like this and answering like this, have I not misrepresented the World-honored One? Have I spoken what is true? Have I spoken what accords with the Dharma, speaking what is Dharma in accordance with the Dharma? In what accords with the Dharma have I created no contradiction? Is there anything to be criticized, anything to be blamed for?

The World-honored One replied:

Nun, speaking like this and answering like this you have not misrepresented me. You have spoken what is true. You have spoken what accords with the Dharma, spoken what is Dharma in accordance with the Dharma. In what accords with the Dharma you have not created any contradiction. There is nothing to be criticized or blamed for.

Nun, if the female lay disciple Visākhā had come and asked me in these phrases and these words, I would have replied to the female lay disciple Visākhā using this meaning, these phrases, and these words. Nun, as you have explained this meaning, you should remember it like this. Why is that? Because this explanation is the meaning of it. Thus spoke the Buddha. Having heard what the Buddha said, the nun Dhammanandā and the monks were delighted and received it respectfully. 211. The Discourse by Mahākoṭṭhita332

Thus have I heard. At one time the Buddha was dwelling at Rājagaha, staying in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrels' Sanctuary.

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At that time, in the late afternoon, the venerable Sāriputta rose from sitting in meditation and approached the venerable Mahākoṭṭhita. He exchanged friendly greetings, stepped back, and sat to one side. The venerable Sāriputta said, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, I would like to ask a question. Am I permitted to ask it?"333

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita said, "Venerable Sāriputta, ask what you wish to ask. Having heard it, I will consider it."

The venerable Sāriputta asked:

Venerable Koṭṭhita, with regard to the unwholesome one speaks of "the unwholesome." And with regard to the roots of unwholesomeness one speaks of "the roots of unwholesomeness." What is unwholesome? What are the roots of unwholesomeness?334

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

Bad bodily conduct, [bad] verbal [conduct], bad mental conduct—these are unwholesome. Desire, aversion, and delusion—these are the roots of unwholesomeness. This is what is meant by "the unwholesome." This is what is meant by "the roots of unwholesomeness."

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further: Venerable Koṭṭhita, with regard to the wholesome one speaks of "the wholesome." And with regard to the roots of wholesomeness one speaks of "the roots of wholesomeness." What is wholesome? What are the roots of wholesomeness?

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

Good bodily conduct, [good] verbal [conduct], good mental conduct—these are wholesome. Absence of desire, absence of aversion, and absence of delusion—these are the roots of wholesomeness. This is what is meant by "the wholesome." This is what is meant by "the roots of wholesomeness." On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta 303

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The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-length Discourses), Volume IV was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, with regard to wisdom one speaks of 'wisdom.' What is wisdom?"

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

One knows, one knows;335 therefore one speaks of wisdom. What does one know? One knows as it really is: "This is dukkha"; one knows [as it really is]: "This is the arising of dukkha"; one knows [as it really is]: "This is the cessation of dukkha"; one knows as it really is: "This is the path to the cessation of dukkha." One knows, one knows; therefore one speaks of "wisdom."

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, with regard to consciousness, one speaks of 'consciousness.' What is consciousness?" The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

One is conscious, one is conscious; therefore one speaks of "consciousness." Of what is one conscious? One is conscious of visible forms, conscious of sounds . . . odors . . . flavors . . . tangibles . . . mental objects.336 One is conscious, one is conscious; therefore one speaks of "consciousness." On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, wisdom and consciousness—are these two states conjoined or separate? Can these two states be designated as separate?" The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

These two states are conjoined, not separate. These two states cannot be designated as separate. Why is that? What one knows with wisdom, of that one is conscious by consciousness. Therefore, these two states are conjoined and not separate. These two states cannot be designated as separate.337 On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta 304

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was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, as regards knowing, through what do you know?" The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied, "As regards knowing, I know through wisdom."

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, what is the purpose of wisdom? What is its excellence? What is its merit?"

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied, "Wisdom has the purpose of disenchantment, the purpose of dispassion, the purpose of seeing as it really is."338 On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, what is right view?" The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied, "Knowing dukkha as it really is, knowing the arising of dukkha . . . its cessation . . . the path as it really is— this is right view."

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, how many causes, how many conditions are there for the arising of right view?"

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

There are two causes, two conditions for the arising of right view. What are the two? One: hearing from another; and two: giving reasoned attention within oneself. These are the two causes, the two conditions for the arising of right view.

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further: Venerable Koṭṭhita, assisted by how many factors does right view lead to the fruit of liberation of the mind and to the fruit of liberation through 305

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The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-length Discourses), Volume IV wisdom, to the achievement of liberation of the mind and to the achievement of liberation through wisdom? The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

Assisted by five factors, right view leads to the fruit of liberation of the mind and to the fruit of liberation through wisdom, to the achievement of liberation of the mind and to the achievement of liberation through wisdom.

What are the five? One: assisted by truth, two: assisted by virtue, three: assisted by wide learning, four: assisted by tranquility, and five: assisted by insight.339 These are the five factors, assisted by which right view leads to the fruit of liberation of the mind and to the fruit of liberation through wisdom, to the achievement of liberation of the mind and to the achievement of liberation through wisdom. On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, how does future becoming arise?" The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

The unlearned ignorant worldling, lacking knowledge, is shrouded in ignorance and fettered by the bondage of craving; he does not visit good spiritual friends, does not know the noble Dharma, and is not disciplined in the noble Dharma. This is how future becoming arises.340 On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, how does future becoming not arise?" The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied, "If ignorance has ceased and knowledge has arisen, then there will certainly be the cessation of dukkha. This is how future becoming does not arise."341

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The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

There are three [types of] feeling: pleasant feeling, painful feeling, and neutral feeling. Because of what do they exist? They exist because of contact.

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further: Venerable Koṭṭhita, feeling, perception, and intention—are these three states conjoined or separate? Can these three states be designated as separate?342

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

Feeling, perception, and intention—these three states are conjoined and not separate. These three states cannot be designated as separate. Why is that? What one feels with feeling, that one perceives with perception and intends with intention. Therefore these three states are conjoined and not separate. These three states cannot be designated as separate. On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, what is the counterpart to cessation?"343 The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied, "Cessation does not have a counterpart." On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further: Venerable Koṭṭhita, the five [sense] faculties have their different activities, their different domains, each of them experiencing its own domain: the eye faculty, the ear . . . nose . . . tongue . . . and the body faculty. [As to] these five faculties with their different activities, their different domains, each of them experiencing its own domain—what experiences all of their domains? On what do they [all] depend?

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The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-length Discourses), Volume IV The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

The five [sense] faculties have their different activities, their different domains, each of them experiencing its own domain: the eye faculty, the ear . . . nose . . . tongue . . . and body faculty. [As to] these five faculties with their different activities, their different domains, each experiencing its own domain—the mind experiences all of their domains. They [all] depend on the mind.

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, depending on what does the mind continue to exist?" The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied, "The mind depends on vitality. Depending on vitality it continues to exist."

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, depending on what does vitality continue to exist?" The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied, "Vitality depends on heat; depending on heat it continues to exist."

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, vitality and heat—are these two states conjoined or separate? Can these two states be designated as separate?"344 The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

Vitality and heat—these two states are conjoined and not separate. These two states cannot be designated as separate. Why is that? Because of vitality there is heat, and because of heat there is vitality. Without vitality there is no heat, without heat there is no vitality.

It is just as a lamp burns because of oil and because of a wick. In this case, because of the flame there is light, and because of the light there is the flame. Without a flame there is no light, and without light there is no flame. In the same way, because of vitality there is heat, and because of heat 308

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there is vitality. Without vitality there is no heat, and without heat there is no vitality. For this reason these two states are conjoined and not separate. These two states cannot be designated as separate.

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further: Venerable Koṭṭhita, how many are the factors of the living body upon the perishing of which the body will be discarded in a cemetery, being insentient like [a piece of] wood? The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

There are three factors of the living body upon the perishing of which the body will be discarded in a cemetery, being insentient like [a piece of] wood. What are the three? One: vitality, two: heat, and three: consciousness. These are the three factors of the living body on the perishing of which the body will be discarded in a cemetery, being insentient like a piece of wood. On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, what is the difference between a dead person and one who has attained the concentration of cessation?"

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

The vitality of a dead person has completely ceased, his heat has dissipated, and his faculties have broken down. The vitality of a monk who has entered the concentration of cessation has not completely ceased, his heat has not dissipated, and his faculties have not broken down. This is the difference between a dead person and one who has attained the concentration of cessation. On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further: Venerable Koṭṭhita, what is the difference between a person who has attained 309

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The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

Perception and knowing cease [when] a monk enters the concentration of cessation. Perception and knowing do not cease [when] a monk enters the concentration of [neither-perception-nor-]nonperception. This is the difference between one who has attained the concentration of cessation and one who has attained the concentration of [neither-perception-nor-] nonperception. On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying. "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further: Venerable Koṭṭhita, what is the difference between one who emerges from the concentration of cessation and one who emerges from the concentration of [neither-perception-nor-]nonperception?

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

When a monk emerges from the concentration of cessation, he does not think, "I am emerging from the concentration of cessation." When a monk emerges from the concentration of [neither-perception-nor-]nonperception, he thinks, "Do I have perception or do I not have perception?" This is the difference between one who emerges from the concentration of cessation and one who emerges from the concentration of [neitherperception-nor-]nonperception. On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, when a monk attains the concentration of cessation, which factor ceases first: bodily activity, verbal [activity], or mental activity?"346 The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied, "When a monk attains the concentration of cessation, bodily activity ceases first, next verbal activity ceases, and finally mental activity ceases."347

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it 310

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is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further: Venerable Koṭṭhita, when a monk emerges from the concentration of cessation, which factor arises first: bodily activity, verbal [activity], or mental activity? The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied, "When a monk emerges from the concentration of cessation, mental activity arises first, next verbal activity arises, and finally bodily activity arises."348

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, when a monk emerges from the concentration of cessation, how many [types of] contact does he contact?" The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

When a monk emerges from the concentration of cessation he contacts three types of contact. What are the three? One: imperturbability contact, two: nothingness contact, and three: signless contact.349 When a monk emerges from the concentration of cessation, he contacts these three types of contact. On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further: Venerable Koṭṭhita, emptiness, desirelessness, and signlessness—are these three states different in meaning and different in name? Or are they of one meaning and different [only] in name?

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied, "Emptiness, desirelessness, and signlessness—these three states are different in meaning and [also] different in name."

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, how many causes and conditions are there for the arising of the imperturbable concentration?"350

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

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There are four causes, four conditions for the arising of the imperturbable concentration. What are the four? If secluded from sensual desires, secluded from evil and unwholesome states . . . up to . . . a monk dwells having attained the fourth absorption. These are the four causes, the four conditions for the arising of the imperturbable concentration.

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, how many causes and conditions are there for the arising of the concentration on nothingness?"

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

There are three causes, three conditions for the arising of concentration on nothingness. What are the three? If completely transcending perceptions of form . . . up to . . . a monk dwells having attained the sphere of nothingness. These are the three causes, the three conditions for the arising of the concentration on nothingness.

On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, how many causes and conditions are there for the arising of the signless concentration?"351

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

There are two causes, two conditions for the arising of the signless concentration. What are the two? One: not being aware of any sign, and two: being aware of the signless element. These are the two causes, the two conditions for the arising of the signless concentration. On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, how many causes and conditions are there for remaining in the signless concentration?"

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

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There are two causes, two conditions for remaining in the signless concentration. What are the two? One: not being aware of any sign, and two: being aware of the signless element.352 These are the two causes, the two conditions for remaining in the signless concentration. On hearing this, the venerable Sāriputta praised him, saying, "It is well, it is well, venerable Koṭṭhita!" Having praised him, the venerable Sāriputta was delighted and received [that teaching] respectfully. [Then] he asked further, "Venerable Koṭṭhita, how many causes and conditions are there for emerging from the signless concentration?"

The venerable Mahākoṭṭhita replied:

There are three causes, three conditions for emerging from the signless concentration. What are the three? One: being aware of any sign; two: not being aware of the signless element; and three: the life faculty conditioned by this body with the six sense spheres.353 These are the three causes, the three conditions for emerging from the signless concentration. In this way those two venerable ones praised each other, saying, "It is well, it is well!" Having discussed with each other, they were delighted and received [those teachings] respectfully. They then rose from their seats and left. 313

Nguồn: BDK America — English Tripiṭaka (bdkamerica.org).