The Madhyama Āgama (Middle-Length Discourses) Volume I

71. The Discourse to Pāyāsi

Division 6

and awakening, and dwells having personally realized. He understands as it really is: "Birth is ended, the holy life has been established, what was to be done has been done. There will not be another existence. "

This is power for a monk. Monks, I do not see any power so hard to subdue as the power of Māra. [Yet] the monk who has ended the taints can subdue it by the power of his unsurpassed noble wisdom. This is what the Buddha said. Having heard the Buddha's words, the monks were delighted and remembered them well.

71. The Discourse to Pāyāsi181

Thus have I heard: At one time Venerable Kumāra Kassapa was staying in the country of Kosala. Together with a large company of monks he approached Setavyā, and stayed to the north of the village in a rosewood grove. At that time in Setavyā there was a king named Pāyāsi, who was extremely rich, possessing limitless wealth and countless livestock and property, endowed with various feudatories and manors. The manors, springs, ponds, grass, and trees in Setavyā all belonged to the king, having been given to him by King Pasenadi of Kosala.

Then the brahmins and householders in Setavyā heard this: A renunciant named Kumāra Kassapa is dwelling in the country of Kosala together with a large company of monks; he has arrived in Setavyā and is staying to the north of the village in the Rosewood Grove. The renunciant Kumāra Kassapa has a great reputation, is well known in all the ten directions.

[Thus they thought:]

Kumāra Kassapa has unhindered eloquence and what he says is subtle. He is a learned arahant. Those who visit this arahant, pay respect to him, and serve him respectfully quickly gain good benefits. Let us go and see the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa!

[So] the people of Setavyā, walking in groups, brahmins with brahmins, householders with householders, went together out of Setavyā toward the north, heading for the Rosewood Grove.

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At that time King Pāyāsi, who was in his main hall, saw in the distance the people of Setavyā, walking in groups, brahmins with brahmins, householders with householders, going together out of Setavyā toward the north, heading for the Rosewood Grove. Seeing this, King Pāyāsi said to an attendant: 525b

Why are the people of Setavyā, walking in groups, brahmins with brahmins, householders with householders, going together out of Setavyā today toward the north, heading for the Rosewood Grove? The attendant said:

Your majesty, those brahmins and householders in Setavyā have heard this:

A renunciant named Kumāra Kassapa is dwelling in the country of Kosala together with a large company of monks; he has arrived in Setavyā and is staying to the north of the village in the Rosewood Grove.

Your majesty, the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa has a great reputation, being well known widely in the ten directions. [Thus they thought]: Kumāra Kassapa has unhindered eloquence and what he says is subtle. He is a learned arahant. If one sees this arahant, pays respect to him and serves him respectfully, one will quickly gain good benefits. Let us go and see the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa! For this reason, your majesty, the people of Setavyā, walking in groups, brahmins with brahmins, householders with householders, are going together out of Setavyā toward the north, heading for the Rosewood Grove.

Hearing this, King Pāyāsi told the attendant:

Go to the brahmins and householders of Setavyā and tell them: King Pāyāsi tells the brahmins and householders of Setavyā: Please wait, friends. Let me go with you to see the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa. You are foolish. Do not be deceived by him 506

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[into believing that] there are future lives, [that] beings are reborn. I hold this view, this tenet: "There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

"

Following the king's instructions, the attendant approached the brahmins and householders of Setavyā and said to them: King Pāyāsi tells the brahmins and householders of Setavyā: Please wait, friends. Let me go with you to see the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa. You are foolish. Do not be deceived by him [into believing that] there are future lives, that beings are reborn. I hold this view, this tenet: "There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

"

Having heard this message, the brahmins and householders of Setavyā replied to the attendant: "We shall wait as commanded. "

The attendant returned and reported: "I have delivered your command. 182

The brahmins and householders of Setavyā await your majesty. May your majesty know the right time.

"

Then King Pāyāsi commanded a charioteer: "Prepare a chariot immediately. I wish to go now. "

Following the king's instruction, the charioteer immediately prepared a chariot and returned to tell the king: "The chariot is ready. It is at your majesty's disposal.

"

Then King Pāyāsi boarded the chariot and departed. Approaching the brahmins and householders of Setavyā, he went with them to the Rosewood Grove. Then, on seeing in the distance the venerable Kumāra Kassapa among the trees in the grove, King Pāyāsi alighted from the chariot and proceeded on foot toward the venerable Kumāra Kassapa. After having exchanged greetings with Venerable Kumāra Kassapa, he sat down to one side and asked: "Kassapa, I now want to ask a question. Would you listen?"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said,

"Pāyāsi, ask what you will. Having heard it, I will consider it.

"

So King Pāyāsi asked:

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Kassapa, I hold this view, this tenet: "There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

" Renunciant Kumāra Kassapa, what do you think [of this]?

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, I will now question you, king. Please reply as you see fit. What do you think, king? The present sun and moon, are they [only] in this life or [also in] future lives?

Pāyāsi replied,

"Despite what the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa says, still I hold this view, this tenet: 'There are no future lives; beings are not reborn. '"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said,

"Pāyāsi, have you another counter argument beyond this?" Pāyāsi replied:

Yes, Kassapa, I have another counterargument. 183Kassapa, [once] some

of my relatives were critically ill, so I went to their place. Having arrived there, I said:

You should know that I hold this view, this tenet: "There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

" [But], relatives, some renunciants and brahmins hold this view, this tenet: "There are future lives; beings are reborn.

" I have always disbelieved what they say. They say further: "If men or women perform evil deeds, if they are indolent, idle, negligent, jealous, stingy, greedy, closefisted, not virtuous, and strongly attached to property, then owing to these causes and conditions, at the breaking up of the body, after death, they will certainly go to a bad realm of existence and be reborn in hell.

"

[Let us] suppose that what those renunciants and brahmins say is true. You, my relatives, have performed evil deeds, you have been indolent, idle, negligent, jealous, stingy, greedy, closefisted, not virtuous, and strongly attached to property. If, at the breaking up of the body, after death, you do [indeed] have to go to a bad realm of existence and are reborn in hell, then come back and tell me: "Pāyāsi, in hell the torments are thus and thus.

" If that happens, then I will see it in the present. 508

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They heard what I said, they received my instructions, yet none of them has come to tell me: "Pāyāsi, in hell the torments are thus and thus.

" For this reason, Kassapa, I think: "There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, I will question you again. Please reply as you see fit. Suppose the king's men arrest a criminal and bring him before the king, saying, "Your majesty, this man has committed a crime. The king should punish him.

" The king tells them:

Take him away. Bind his hands behind him and set him on a donkey. Beat a broken drum that makes a sound like a donkey's braying. Having announced the sentence widely, lead him out through the southern gate, seat him beneath a tall signpost, and behead him. Following his instructions, the king's men bind the criminal's hands behind him and set him on a donkey. They beat a broken drum that makes a sound like a donkey's braying. Having announced the sentence widely, they lead him out through the southern gate, seat him beneath a tall signpost, and are about to behead him. This man, on the point of death, says to the executioner,

"Please wait a while. I wish to see my

parents, wife and children, my male and female servants and messengers. Let me go temporarily. "

What do you think, king? Would the executioner release the criminal and let him go temporarily?

Pāyāsi replied,

"No, Kassapa.

"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, such is also the case with your relatives who had performed evil deeds, who had been indolent, idle, negligent, jealous, stingy, greedy, closefisted, not virtuous, and strongly attached to property, and who, owing to these causes and conditions, at the breaking up of the body, after death, certainly went to a bad realm of existence and were reborn in hell.

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526b

When the wardens of hell caught them and tortured them, [suppose that] they told the wardens of hell:

Wardens of hell, please wait a while and stop torturing me. I wish to go temporarily and visit King Pāyāsi to tell him: "In hell the torments are thus and thus,

" so that he can see it in the present.

What do you think, king? Would the wardens of hell release your relatives and let them come [back] temporarily? Pāyāsi replied,

"No, Kassapa.

"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, you should contemplate future lives in this way, since you cannot see them with your physical eyes.

Pāyāsi, if a renunciant or a brahmin cuts off and abandons desire, inclines toward abandoning desire; if he cuts off and abandons hatred, inclines towards abandoning hatred; if he cuts off and abandons delusion, inclines towards abandoning delusion—then with the purified divine eye, which surpasses human [vision], he sees beings as they die and are reborn handsome or ugly, excellent or not excellent, as they depart and return to good or bad realms of existence in accordance with their [previous] deeds. He sees this as it really is. King Pāyāsi again said,

"Despite what the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa says, I still hold this view, this tenet: 'There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

'"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said: "Pāyāsi, have you another counter argument beyond this?" Pāyāsi replied:

Yes, Kassapa, I have another counterargument. Kassapa, [once] some of my relatives were critically ill, so I went to their place. Having arrived there, I said:

You should know that I hold this view, this tenet: "There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

" [But,] relatives, some renunciants and brahmins hold this view, this tenet: "There are future 510

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lives; beings are reborn.

" I have always disbelieved what they

say.

They say further,

"If men or women perform good deeds, if

they are energetic, diligent, not negligent, not jealous, not stingy, not greedy, openhanded, virtuous; if they generously renounce [their wealth] and give it to orphans and the poor, always enjoy practicing charity, and are not attached to property—then owing to these causes and conditions, at the breaking up of the body, after death, they will certainly ascend to a good realm of existence, and be reborn in a heavenly realm.

"

Let us suppose that what those renunciants and brahmins say is true. You, my relatives, have performed good deeds, you are energetic, diligent, not negligent, not jealous, not stingy or greedy, openhanded, virtuous; you have generously renounced [your wealth] and given it to orphans and the poor, you have always enjoyed practicing charity, and you are not attached to property. If, at the breaking up of the body, after death, you do [indeed] ascend to a good realm of existence and are reborn in heaven, then come back and tell me,

"Pāyāsi, in heaven the pleasures are thus

and thus.

" If that happens, I will see it in the present. They heard what I said, they received my instructions, yet none of them has ever come to tell me,

"Pāyāsi, in heaven the pleasures are

thus and thus.

" For this reason, Kassapa, I think: "There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, listen while I tell you a parable. The wise, on hearing a parable, understand its implication. Suppose, Pāyāsi, that outside a village or a town there is a cesspit full of feces, so deep that a man could be submerged in it up to his head. A man has fallen into this cesspit and sunk to the bottom. Suppose that another man, pitying him, seeking his prosperity, benefit, peace, and happiness, pulls him gently from the cesspit, wipes him down with a slice of bamboo, brushes him with leaves, and bathes him with warm water.

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Later on, after [the first man] has been cleaned and bathed, perfume is applied to his body. He ascends to the main hall, and is entertained with the pleasures of the five senses. What do you think, king? Would that man enjoy recalling that cesspit, delight in praising it, and wish to revisit it?

Pāyāsi replied:

No, Kassapa. If someone else were to recall that cesspit [to him], delight in praising it, and wish [him] to revisit it, then he would not love this person. How much less would he himself recall that cesspit, delight in praising it, and wish to see it again! This is not possible. [Venerable Kumāra Kassapa continued:]

Pāyāsi, if your relatives performed good deeds, if they were energetic, diligent, not negligent, not jealous, not stingy or greedy, openhanded, virtuous; if they generously renounced [their wealth] and gave it to orphans and the poor, always enjoyed practicing charity, and were not attached to property—then owing to these causes and conditions, at the breaking up of the body, after death, they certainly ascended to a good realm of existence, were reborn in a heavenly realm. Having been reborn in heaven, they would entertain themselves with the heavenly pleasures of the five senses. What do you think, king? Would those gods in heaven give up the heavenly pleasures of the five senses and, recalling the pleasures of the five senses in this human realm, delight in praising them, and wish to revisit them? Pāyāsi replied:

No, Kassapa. Why is that? The pleasures of the five senses of this human realm are putrid, unclean, utterly abhorrent, unattractive, undesirable, coarse, and impure. Kassapa, compared with the pleasures of the five senses in this human realm, heavenly sensual pleasures are the utmost, the supreme, the best, the most wonderful and excellent. It cannot be that a god in heaven would give up the heavenly pleasures of the five senses, recall the pleasures of the five senses in this human realm, delight in praising them, and wish to see them again. 512

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[Venerable Kumāra Kassapa continued:]

Pāyāsi, you should contemplate future lives in this way, since you cannot see them with your physical eyes. Pāyāsi, if a renunciant or a brahmin cuts off and abandons desire, inclines toward abandoning desire; if he cuts off and abandons hatred, inclines toward abandoning hatred; if he cuts off and abandons delusion, inclines toward abandoning delusion—then with the purified divine eye, which surpasses human [vision], he sees beings as they die and are reborn handsome or ugly, excellent or not excellent, as they depart and return to good or bad realms of existence in accordance with their [previous] deeds. He sees this as it really is.

King Pāyāsi again said,

"Despite what the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa

says, I still hold this view, this tenet: 'There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

'"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said,

"Pāyāsi, have you another counterargument beyond this?" Pāyāsi replied:

Yes, Kassapa, I have another counterargument. Kassapa, [once] some of my relatives were critically ill, so I went to their place. Having arrived there, I said:

You should know that I hold this view, this tenet: "There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

" [But], relatives, some renunciants and brahmins hold this view, this tenet: "There are future lives; beings are reborn.

" I have always disbelieved what they say.

[But] they say further: "If men or women perform good deeds, if they are energetic, diligent, not negligent, not jealous, not stingy, not greedy, openhanded, virtuous; if they generously renounce [their wealth] and give it to orphans and the poor, always enjoy practicing charity, and are not attached to property—then owing to these causes and conditions, at the breaking up of the body, after death, they will certainly ascend to a good realm of existence, and be reborn in a heavenly realm.

"

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Let us suppose that what those renunciants and brahmins say is true. You, my relatives, have performed good deeds, you are energetic, diligent, not negligent, not jealous, not stingy or greedy, openhanded, virtuous; you have generously renounced [your wealth] and given it to orphans and the poor, you have always enjoyed practicing charity, and you are not attached to property. If, at the breaking up of the body, after death, you do [indeed] go to a good realm of existence and are reborn in heaven, then come back and tell me: "Pāyāsi, in heaven the pleasures are thus and thus.

" In heaven you might think thus: "What shall I gain by going back?" [However,] in King Pāyāsi's household there is much wealth. I will give [some] to you.

They heard what I said, they received my instructions, yet none of them has ever come to tell me,

"Pāyāsi, in heaven the pleasures are

thus and thus.

"

For this reason, Kassapa, I think: "There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, the life span in heaven is long, while the life span in the human realm is short. What is a hundred years for human beings is one day and night for the thirty-three gods. Thirty such days and nights make a month, twelve such months make a year, and a thousand such years are the heavenly life span of the thirty-three gods. What do you think, king? If your relatives performed good deeds, if they were energetic, diligent, not negligent, not jealous, not stingy, not greedy, openhanded, virtuous; if they generously renounced [their wealth] and gave it to orphans and the poor, always enjoyed practicing charity, and were not attached to property—then owing to these causes and conditions, at the breaking up of the body, after death, they certainly ascended to a good realm of existence, were reborn in a heavenly realm. Having been reborn in heaven, they might think: We should first entertain ourselves with the heavenly pleasures of the five senses for one day and night, or entertain ourselves with 514

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the heavenly pleasures of the five senses for two, three, four, or even six or seven days. After that we shall go to tell King Pāyāsi that the pleasures in heaven are thus and thus.

What do you think, king? Would you be still alive [when they came back]?

Pāyāsi asked:

Kassapa, who has come back from his afterlife to tell you: "Renunciant Kumāra Kassapa, the life span in heaven is long, while the life span in the human realm is short. What is a hundred years for human beings is one day and night for the thirty-three gods. Thirty such days and nights make a month, twelve such months make a year, and a thousand such years are the heavenly life span of the thirty-three gods"? Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, listen while I tell you a parable. The wise, on hearing a parable, understand its implication.

Suppose, Pāyāsi, that a blind man were to say this: There are no black or white objects, nor is there seeing of black or white objects. There are no long or short objects, nor is there seeing of long or short objects. There are no near or far objects, nor is there seeing of near or far objects. There are no rough or smooth objects, nor is there seeing of rough or smooth objects. Why? There are no objects because from the beginning I have never seen or known them.

[If] the blind man spoke like this, would it be true? Pāyāsi replied:

No, Kassapa. Why is that? Kassapa, there are black and white objects, and also there is seeing of black and white objects. There are long and short objects, and also there is seeing of long and short objects. There are near and far objects, and also there is seeing of near and far objects. There are rough and smooth objects, and also there is seeing of rough and smooth objects. If the blind man were to say "There are no objects 527b

515

because from the beginning I have never seen or known them, " then

what he said would not be true.

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

King Pāyāsi, you are also like a blind man if you say: Kassapa, who has come back from his afterlife to tell you: "Renunciant Kumāra Kassapa, the life span in heaven is long, while the life span in the human realm is short. What is a hundred years for human beings is one day and night for the thirty-three gods. Thirty such days and nights make a month, twelve such months make a year, and a thousand such years are the heavenly life span of the thirty-three gods"?

King Pāyāsi said:

Renunciant Kumāra Kassapa, you certainly must not and should not speak so. Why is that?

Renunciant Kumāra Kassapa, you go so far as to compare me to a blind man. Kassapa, assuming it was known to me or known to my relatives who performed good deeds, who were energetic, diligent, not negligent, not jealous, not stingy, not greedy, openhanded, virtuous; who generously renounced [their wealth] and gave it to orphans and the poor, always enjoyed practicing charity, and were not attached to property, that owing to these causes and conditions, at the breaking up of the body, after death, they certainly would ascend to a good realm of existence, and be reborn in heaven—then, Kassapa, I would now practice charity, perform meritorious actions, observe the uposatha and the precepts, and then commit suicide by using a knife, or taking poison, or throwing [myself] into a hole or a well, or hanging myself. Renunciant Kumāra Kassapa, you should not go so far as to compare me to that blind man.

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, listen while I tell you another parable. The wise, on hearing a parable, understand its implication.

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Suppose, Pāyāsi, that a brahmin has a young wife who has just become pregnant, and that he already has a son by his former wife; and then in the midst of this that brahmin suddenly dies. After his death, the former wife's son says to his stepmother, "Stepmother, you should know that all the property of this household should now belong to me. I see no one else anymore who should share in it. "

The stepmother replies,

"I am pregnant now. If I give birth to a boy,

you should share with him. If I give birth to a girl, all the property belongs to you.

"

The former wife's son says to his stepmother a second and a third time,

"All the property of this household should now belong to me. I see no one else anymore who should share in it. " And the stepmother

also replies a second and a third time,

"I am pregnant now. If I give

birth to a boy, you should share with him. If I give birth to a girl, all the property belongs to you.

"

Then the stepmother, being foolish, ignorant, of poor understanding, lacking wisdom, [though] desiring to protect her life, on the contrary harms herself. She enters an inner room, takes a sharp knife and cuts open her belly, to see whether it is a boy or a girl. Being foolish, ignorant, of poor understanding, lacking wisdom, [though] desiring to protect her life, she on the contrary harms herself and the child in her belly.

It should be known that Pāyāsi is likewise foolish, ignorant, of poor understanding, lacking wisdom, in that [though] desiring to protect his life, he on the contrary thinks like this: Kassapa, if it were known to me or known to my relatives who performed good deeds, who were energetic, diligent, not negligent, not jealous, not stingy, not greedy, openhanded, virtuous; who generously renounced [their wealth] and gave it to orphans and the poor, always enjoyed practicing charity, and were not attached to property, that owing to these causes and conditions, at the breaking up of the body, after death, they certainly would ascend to a good realm of existence, and be reborn in heaven—then, Kassapa, I would now practice charity, perform meritorious actions, observe 517

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528a

the uposathaand the precepts, and then commit suicide by using a knife, or taking poison, or throwing [myself] into a hole or a well, or hanging myself.

[And Pāyāsi also says:] "Renunciant Kumāra Kassapa, you should not go so far as to compare me to that blind man.

"

Pāyāsi, if an energetic man lives long, he will acquire great merit. If he acquires great merit, he will be reborn in heaven and enjoy longevity. Pāyāsi, you should contemplate future lives thus, [since you] cannot see them with your physical eyes:

Pāyāsi, if a renunciant or a brahmin cuts off and abandons desire, inclines toward abandoning desire; if he cuts off and abandons hatred, inclines toward abandoning hatred; if he cuts off and abandons delusion, inclines toward abandoning delusion—then with the purified divine eye, which surpasses human [vision], he sees beings as they die and are reborn handsome or ugly, excellent or not excellent, as they depart and return to good or bad realms of existence in accordance with their [previous] deeds. He sees this as it really is.

King Pāyāsi again said,

"Despite what the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa

says, I still hold this view, this tenet: 'There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

'"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said,

"Pāyāsi, have you another counterargument beyond this?" Pāyāsi replied:

Yes, Kassapa, I have another counterargument. Kassapa, [once] some of my relatives were critically ill. I went to their place to visit and greet them, and they also visited and greeted me. When they died, I visited and greeted them again, but they did not visit and greet me again; so I also do not visit and greet them. Kassapa, for this reason I think, "Beings are not reborn.

"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, listen while I tell you another parable. The wise, on hearing a parable, understand its implication.

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Suppose, Pāyāsi, there is a skilled conch-blower. He goes to a place where nobody has ever heard the sound of a conch. He mounts a high hill on a dark night, and with all his might he blows the conch. Because the people there have never heard the sound of a conch, on hearing it, they think,

"What is this sound that is so wonderful, very

extraordinary, truly delightful, pleasant to the ear, and gladdening to the heart?"

Then that crowd together approaches the skilled conch-blower. Having arrived, they ask: "What is this sound that is so wonderful, very extraordinary, truly delightful, pleasant to the ear, and gladdening to the heart?"

The skilled conch-blower puts the conch down on the ground and tells the crowd: "Sirs, you should know that it is the sound of this conch.

"

Thereupon, the people kick the conch, saying,

"Make a sound,

conch! Make a sound, conch!" But it is silent, producing no sound. The skilled conch-blower thinks:

Now, these people are foolish, ignorant, poor in understanding, lacking wisdom. Why so? They seek to get sound from a senseless object.

Then the skilled conch-blower takes the conch, washes it with water, raises it to his mouth, and blows it with all his might. Hearing it, the people in the crowd think:

The conch is marvelous! Why so? Because by means of hands, water, and the blowing of wind from the mouth it produces a fine sound that pervades the four directions.

In the same way, Pāyāsi, if a man is still alive, he can talk with and greet others. [But] when he is dead, he can no longer talk with or greet others.

Pāyāsi, you should contemplate the rebirth of beings thus, [since you] cannot see it with your physical eyes. Pāyāsi, if a renunciant or a brahmin cuts off and abandons desire, inclines toward abandoning desire; if he cuts off and abandons hatred, inclines toward abandoning 519

528b

hatred; if he cuts off and abandons delusion, inclines toward abandoning delusion—then with the purified divine eye, which surpasses human [vision], he sees beings as they die and are reborn handsome or ugly, excellent or not excellent, as they depart and return to good or bad realms of existence in accordance with their [previous] deeds. He sees this as it really is.

King Pāyāsi again said,

"Despite what the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa

says, I still hold this view, this tenet: 'Beings are not reborn. '"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said,

"Pāyāsi, have you another counterargument beyond this?" Pāyāsi replied:

Yes, Kassapa, I have another counterargument. Kassapa, [once] my officers arrested a criminal and brought him before me. Having arrived, they said,

"Your majesty, this man has committed a crime. May your majesty punish him!" I told them:

Take this criminal away and weigh him on the scales alive. After having weighed him alive, put him down on the ground and strangle him with a rope. Having killed him, weigh him again. I want to know when this man is light, soft, and has a lustrous appearance: when he is dead or when he is alive.

Following my instructions, they took this criminal away and weighed him on the scales alive. Having done so, they put him down on the ground and strangled him with a rope. Having killed him, they weighed him again. When the criminal was alive, he was very light and soft, with lustrous appearance. When dead, his skin became thick and he became heavy, stiff, not soft, and lost his lustrous appearance. For this reason, Kassapa, I think,

"Beings are not reborn.

"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, listen while I tell you another parable. The wise, on hearing a parable, understand its implication.

Suppose, Pāyāsi, that an iron ball or an iron ploughshare has been heated by fire all day. At that time, it is very light and soft, with 520

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a lustrous appearance. [But] once the fire is extinguished, it gradually cools down, becomes solid, thick, and heavy, and becomes stiff, not soft, and loses its lustrous appearance.

In the same way, Pāyāsi, if a man is alive, his body is very light and soft, with lustrous appearance. [But] once he is dead, he becomes thick, heavy, stiff, not soft, and loses his lustrous appearance. Pāyāsi, you should contemplate the rebirth of beings thus, [since you] cannot see it with your physical eyes. Pāyāsi, if a renunciant or a brahmin cuts off and abandons desire, inclines toward abandoning desire; if he cuts off and abandons hatred, inclines toward abandoning hatred; if he cuts off and abandons delusion, inclines toward abandoning delusion—then with the purified divine eye, which surpasses human [vision], he sees beings as they die and are reborn handsome or ugly, excellent or not excellent, as they depart and return to good or bad realms of existence in accordance with their [previous] deeds. He sees this as it really is.

King Pāyāsi again said,

"Despite what the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa

says, I still hold this view, this tenet: 'Beings are not reborn. '"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said,

"Pāyāsi, have you another counterargument beyond this?" Pāyāsi replied:

Yes, Kassapa, I have another counterargument.

Kassapa, [once] my officers arrested a criminal and brought him before me. Having arrived, they said,

"Your majesty, this man has committed a crime. May your majesty punish him!" I told them: Take this criminal and put him head downward into an iron cauldron or a copper cauldron. Seal its mouth and light a fire underneath it. Having lit the fire, watch to see [if any] being enters or leaves, comes or goes, or moves around.

Following my instructions, they took this criminal away and put him head downward into an iron cauldron or a copper cauldron. They sealed its mouth and lit a fire underneath it. Having lit the fire, they watched to see [if any] being entered or left, came or went, or moved around. 528c

521

Kassapa, by such means I saw no rebirth of any being. For this reason, Kassapa, I think: "Beings are not reborn. "

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, I will question you now. Please reply as you see fit. What do you think? Do you recall that, while taking the noontide rest on your bed [after having] eaten excellent, delicious food, you saw in a dream pleasure parks, bathing pools, groves, flowers, fruits, clear springs, and long streams, and saw yourself taking recreation there, moving around, coming and going to your heart's content? Pāyāsi replied,

"Yes, I do recall so.

"

Kassapa asked further,

"While you were taking the noontide rest on your bed [after having] eaten excellent, delicious food, were any attendants present?"

He replied,

"Yes.

"

Kassapa asked further:

While you were taking the noontide rest on your bed [after having] eaten excellent, delicious food, at that time did the attendants to [your] left and right see you entering or leaving, moving around, or coming and going?

Pāyāsi replied,

"How could even the most remarkable individual see this, let alone the attendants to [my] left and right?" [Kassapa said:]

Pāyāsi, you should contemplate the rebirth of beings thus, [since you] cannot see it with your physical eyes. Pāyāsi, if a renunciant or a brahmin cuts off and abandons desire, inclines toward abandoning desire; if he cuts off and abandons hatred, inclines toward abandoning hatred; if he cuts off and abandons delusion, inclines toward abandoning delusion—then with the purified divine eye, which surpasses human [vision], he sees beings as they die and are reborn handsome or ugly, excellent or not excellent, as they depart and return to good or bad realms of existence in accordance with their [previous] deeds. He sees this as it really is.

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Division 6

King Pāyāsi again said,

"Despite what the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa says, I still hold this view, this tenet: 'Beings are not reborn. '"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said,

"Pāyāsi, have you another counterargument beyond this?" Pāyāsi replied:

Yes, Kassapa, I have another counterargument. Kassapa, [once] my officers arrested a criminal and brought him before me. Having arrived, they said,

"Your majesty, this man has committed a crime. May your majesty punish him!" I told them:

Take this criminal away. Peel off his skin and tear off his flesh. Cut off his sinews and break his bones to the marrow. Search for the being to be reborn.

Following my instructions, they took this criminal away, peeled off his skin, tore off his flesh, cut off his sinews, and broke his bones to the marrow, searching for the being to be reborn. Kassapa, I used such means to search for the being to be reborn, but in the end I could not see any being to be reborn. For this reason, Kassapa, I think: "Beings are not reborn. "

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, listen while I tell you another parable. The wise, on hearing a parable, understand its implication.

Suppose, Pāyāsi, that a fire-worshiping matted-hair brahmin is living near a road. Some merchants stay the night at a place not far away from him. Then, when the night has passed and dawn has broken, the merchants set out hastily, forgetfully leaving behind a small child. Then the fire-worshiping matted-hair brahmin, having risen early, looks around the place where the merchants stayed and sees the small child left alone without an owner. Seeing it, he thinks, "This small

child has nobody to depend on. He will definitely die unless I support him.

" So he carries the small child away, returns to his own place, and rears him. The small child grows up, endowed with all his faculties. Then the fire-worshiping matted-hair brahmin has some small matter for which he has to go among the people. The fire-worshiping matted-hair brahmin therefore instructs the boy: 523

529a

529b

I have some small matter for which I have to go among the people for a while. You must feed the fire and be careful not to let it go out. If it should go out, use these fire-sticks to make fire. Then, having instructed him well, the fire-worshiping matted-hair brahmin goes among the people. Later on the boy goes out to play, and the fire goes out. When he returns he tries to make fire. He takes the fire-sticks and hits them on the ground, saying,

"Come out, fire! Come out, fire!" But no fire comes out. He exerts more effort, hitting it on a stone, [saying,] "Come out, fire! Come out, fire!" But still no fire comes out. As no fire comes out, he breaks the fire-sticks into ten and even a hundred pieces, throws them away, and sits down on the ground, anxiously saying, "I cannot

get fire. What should I do?"

Then the fire-worshiping matted-hair brahmin, having finished what he had to do among the people, returns to his own place. Having arrived, he asks,

"Boy, did you look after the fire without playing and not let it go out?"

The boy said:

Venerable sir, I went out to play, and the fire went out. When I returned, I tried to make fire. I took the fire-sticks and hit them on the ground, saying: "Come out, fire! Come out, fire!" But no fire came out. I exerted more effort, hitting them on a stone, [saying,] "Come out, fire! Come out, fire!" But still no fire came out. As no fire came out, I broke the fire-sticks into ten and even a hundred pieces, threw them away and sat down on the ground. Venerable sir, I tried like this, but could not get fire. What should I have done? Then the fire-worshiping matted-hair brahmin thinks: This boy is foolish, ignorant, poor in understanding, and lacking wisdom. Why so? How else could one implore the non-intelligent fire-sticks [with words] to render fire?

The fire-worshiping matted-hair brahmin then takes dry sticks to use as the upper and lower fire-sticks, places them on the ground and, by 524

Division 6

rubbing, causes [sparks of] fire to come out, which gradually become flames. He tells the boy:

Boy, this is how one should make fire. One should not be like you, foolish, ignorant, poor in understanding, lacking wisdom, and try to implore the non-intelligent fire-sticks to render fire. Pāyāsi, it should be known that you are likewise foolish, ignorant, poor in understanding, and lacking wisdom, searching in dead flesh and even in marrow for a being to be reborn.

Pāyāsi, you should contemplate the rebirth of beings thus, [since you] cannot see it with your physical eyes. Pāyāsi, if a renunciant or a brahmin cuts off and abandons desire, inclines toward abandoning desire; if he cuts off and abandons hatred, inclines toward abandoning hatred; if he cuts off and abandons delusion, inclines toward abandoning delusion—then with the purified divine eye, which surpasses human [vision], he sees beings as they die and are reborn handsome or ugly, excellent or not excellent, as they depart and return to good or bad realms of existence in accordance with their [previous] deeds. He sees this as it really is.

King Pāyāsi again said:

Despite what the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa says, I still hold on to this view, out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion; I am utterly unable to let go of it. Why is that?

If other people in other countries heard of this, they would say, "King Pāyāsi held his view for a long time, but he has been refuted, defeated, and made to abandon it by the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa. "

For this reason, Kassapa, I hold on to this view, out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion; I am utterly unable to let go of it. Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, listen while I tell you a parable. The wise, on hearing a parable, understand its implication.

Suppose, Pāyāsi, two friends leave home to make a living. On 525

529c

their way, they first see a large amount of hemp without an owner. On seeing it, one of the men tells his companion:

You should know that there is a large amount of hemp here without an owner. Let us take it, make up a heavy load for each of us, and carry it back home as our source of livelihood.

So they carry off their heavy load. Further on, they see a large amount of cotton thread and cotton clothes without an owner. Further on again, they see a large amount of silver without an owner. On seeing it, one of them lays down his load of hemp, takes the silver, and loads himself up with it. Still further on they see a large amount of gold without an owner.

Then the man loaded with silver tells the one loaded with hemp: Now, you should know that there is a great amount of gold here without an owner. You discard your hemp and I will discard my silver. I want you and me to take this gold and carry a heavy load of it home, as our source of livelihood.

The man loaded with hemp tells the one loaded with silver: My load of hemp is fine. It is well packed and tied up, and I have carried it a long way. I cannot let go of it. You know what is fit for you. Don't worry about me!

At this the man loaded with silver grabs the load of hemp by force and throws it to the ground, damaging it. The one with the hemp tells the one with the silver:

You have damaged my load. My load of hemp is well tied up, and I have carried it a long way. I want to carry this hemp back home myself. I will never let go of it. You know what is fit for you. Don't worry about me!

Then the man with the load of silver discards it, loads himself up heavily with gold, and heads back home. As this man loaded with gold approaches his home, his father and mother, seeing him in the distance coming back with a load of gold, exclaim:

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Division 6

Welcome, good son! Come quickly, good son! Thanks to this gold, you will make a good living, support your father and mother, and sustain your wife, children, your male and female servants, and messengers. Furthermore, you can make offerings to renunciants and brahmins, make merit and uplift [yourself], [experience] good fruits and good results, being reborn in heaven and enjoying longevity.

[But when] the man loaded with hemp returns to his home, his father and mother, seeing him in the distance coming back with a load of hemp, reprove him saying:

Here you come, criminal! Here you come, man without virtue! With this hemp you will not make a living, or support your father and mother, or sustain your wife, children, male and female servants, and messengers. Neither can you make offerings to renunciants and brahmins, make merit and uplift [yourself], [experience] good fruits and good results, or be reborn in heaven and enjoy longevity.

Pāyāsi, you should know that such is also the case with you. If you hold on to this view out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion, and do not let go of it, you will be subject to immeasurable misfortune and be abhorred by many people.

King Pāyāsi again said:

Despite what the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa says, I still hold on to this view, out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion; I am utterly unable to let go of it. Why is that? If other people in other countries heard of this, they would say,

"King Pāyāsi held his view for a long time, but he has been refuted, defeated, and made to abandon it by the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa.

" For this reason, Kassapa, I hold on to this view, out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion; I am utterly unable to let go of it. Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, listen while I tell you another parable. The wise, on hearing a parable, understand its implication.

527

530a

Suppose, Pāyāsi, some merchants and a crowd of associates, with a thousand carts, are traveling on a road [through an area] of scarce provisions. The crowd has two leaders. They think: "How can we get out of this trouble?" They think further: "This crowd should be divided into two groups of five hundred carts each.

" So those merchants divide

into two groups of five hundred carts each.

Then one leader of the merchants leads five hundred carts along the road [through the area] of scarce provisions. That merchant leader often goes ahead [by himself]. He sees a man coming from a side road with his clothes all wet, with dark body, yellow head, and two deep red eyes, wearing a garland of hibiscus flowers, and driving a donkey cart whose two wheels are splashed with mud. On seeing him, the merchant leader asks, "Has it been raining on the road [through the area] of scarce provisions? Is there new water, firewood, and grass [ahead]?" That man replies:

There has been a great deal of rain on the road [through the area] of scarce provisions. There is plenty of new water, firewood, and grass. Friend, throw away the water, firewood, and grass that you already have, so as not to tire your vehicles. You will find new water, good firewood, and grass before long.

Hearing this, the merchant leader returns to the merchants and says: As I was going ahead, I saw a man coming from a side road with his clothes all wet, with dark body, yellow head, and two deep red eyes, wearing a garland of hibiscus flowers, and driving a donkey cart whose two wheels were splashed with mud. I asked him, "Has

it been raining on the road [through the area] of scarce provisions? Is there new water, firewood, and grass [ahead]?" He replied to me, saying,

"There has been a great deal of rain on the road [through the area] of scarce provisions. There is plenty of new water, firewood, and grass. Friend, throw away the water, firewood, and grass that you already have, so as not to tire your vehicles. You will find new water, good firewood, and grass before long. "

Merchants, let us throw away the water, firewood, and grass 528

Division 6

that we already have. We will find new water, firewood, and grass before long. Let us not tire our vehicles!

So those merchants throw away the water, firewood, and grass that they already have. After one day's journey, they find no new water, firewood, or grass. After two days . . . three days . . . even after seven days of travel, they still find no new water, firewood, or grass. After seven days have passed, they are killed by man-eating ghosts. The second merchant leader thinks,

"The first merchant leader has

crossed over the danger. By what means can we now overcome the hardships?" Having thought thus, the second merchant leader proceeds along the road [through the area] of scarce provisions together with the five hundred carts. The second merchant leader goes ahead by himself. He sees a man coming from a side road with his clothes all wet, with dark body, yellow head, and two deep red eyes, wearing a garland of hibiscus flowers, and driving a donkey chart whose two wheels are splashed with mud.

On seeing him, the second merchant leader asks,

"Has it been raining on the road [through the area] of scarce provisions? Are there new water, firewood, and grass [ahead]?" That man replies: There has been a great deal of rain on the road [through the area] of scarce provisions. There is plenty of new water, firewood, and grass. Friend, throw away the water, firewood, and grass that you already have, so as not to tire your vehicles. You will find new water, good firewood, and grass before long.

Hearing this, the second merchant leader returns to the merchants and says:

While I was going ahead, I saw a man coming from a side road with his clothes all wet, with a dark body, yellow head, and two deep red eyes, wearing a garland of hibiscus flowers, and driving a donkey cart whose two wheels were splashed with mud. I asked him,

"Has it been raining on the road [through the area] of scarce provisions? Are there new water, firewood, and grass [ahead]?" 529

530b

He replied,

"There has been a great deal of rain on the road

[through the area] of scarce provisions. There is plenty of new water, firewood, and grass. Friend, throw away the water, firewood, and grass that you already have, so as not to tire your vehicles. You will find new water, good firewood, and grass before long. "

[But,] merchants, we cannot throw away the water, firewood, or grass that we already have. We should throw them away only if we find new water, firewood, and grass.

[So] they do not throw away the water, firewood, and grass that they already have. After one day's journey, they find no new water, firewood, or grass. After two days . . . three days . . . even after seven days of travel, they still find no new water, firewood, or grass. While going ahead, the second merchant leader finds that the first merchant leader and his merchants have been killed by man-eating ghosts. Seeing this, the second merchant leader tells the merchants: You see! The first merchant leader was foolish, ignorant, poor in understanding, and lacking wisdom. He himself has been killed, and all his people too have been killed. Merchants, if you would like to take the belongings of the first group of merchants, do so at will! Pāyāsi, you should know that such is also the case with you. If you hold on to this view out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion, and do not let go of it, you will be subject to immeasurable misfortune and also be abhorred by many people, just like the first merchant leader and his merchants.

King Pāyāsi said again:

Despite what the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa says, I still hold on to this view, out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion; I am utterly unable to let go of it. Why is that? If other people in other countries heard of this, they would say,

"King Pāyāsi held his view for a long time, but

he has been refuted, defeated, and made to abandon it by the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa.

"

For this reason, Kassapa, I hold on to this view, out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion; I am utterly unable to let go of it. 530

Division 6

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, listen while I tell you another parable. The wise, on hearing a parable, understand its implication. Suppose, Pāyāsi, that two men wanted to gamble with grains184 [as tokens]. The first player [on losing] furtively eats the [extra] grains [that cause him to lose]: once, twice, three times, again and again. The second player thinks,

"I am playing against this man, but he has cheated me many times, furtively eating the [extra] grains: once, twice, three times, again and again.

"

Seeing this, he tells his companion, "Now I want to rest. Let us

resume the game later.

" Thereupon the second player leaves that place and smears the grains with poison. Having smeared them, he returns and tells his companion,

"Come and [resume] the game with me!" So he comes and they play together. Again the first player furtively eats the grains: once, twice, three times, again and again. Having eaten the grains, his eyes become vacant, he foams at the mouth, and is almost dying. Then the second player utters this verse to the first player: These grains are smeared with poison. You ate them greedily without noticing. You cheated me with the grains,

That was bound to make you suffer!

Pāyāsi, you should know that such is also the case with you. If you hold on to this view out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion, and do not let go of it, you will be subject to immeasurable misfortune and be abhorred by many people, just as the player who cheated the other out of grains brought disaster on himself. King Pāyāsi again said:

Despite what the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa says, I still hold on to this view, out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion; I am utterly unable to let go of it. Why is that? If other people in other countries heard of this, they would say "King Pāyāsi held his view for a long time, but he has been refuted, defeated, and made to abandon it by the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa.

"

531

530c

531a

Therefore, Kassapa, I hold on to this view, out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion; I am utterly unable to let go of it. Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, listen while I tell you another parable. The wise, on hearing a parable, understand its implication.

Suppose, Pāyāsi, a pig farmer, while walking along a road, sees a large amount of dry dung without an owner. He thinks, "This dung

can feed many pigs. Let me take it, load myself up, and leave. " So he

takes it and leaves.

On the way he encounters heavy rain. The dung, dissolving and oozing, fouls his body, but he keeps on carrying it along, never discarding it. Consequently he experiences immeasurable misfortune and is abhorred by many people.

You should know, Pāyāsi, that such is also the case with you. If you hold on to this view out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion, and do not let go of it, you will experience immeasurable misfortune and be abhorred by many people, just like that pig farmer. King Pāyāsi again said:

Despite what the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa says, I still hold on to this view, out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion; I am utterly unable to let go of it. Why is that? If other people in other countries heard of this, they would say,

"King Pāyāsi held his view for a long time, but he has been refuted, defeated, and made to abandon it by the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa.

"

Therefore, Kassapa, I hold on to this view, out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion; I am utterly unable to let go of it. Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, listen while I tell you one last parable. It will be good if you understand it. If not, I will not teach you the Dharma any more. Suppose, Pāyāsi, a large pig, the king of five hundred pigs, while walking along a dangerous road, encounters a tiger on the way. On seeing the tiger, the pig thinks:

532

Division 6

If I fight with this tiger, he will definitely kill me. If I run away in fear, my kinsmen will slight me. By what means can I get out of this trouble?

Having thought thus, he tells the tiger, "If you want to fight, I can fight with you. If not, then let me pass. " Hearing this, the tiger tells the pig, "I allow you to fight with me. I will not let you pass. "

The pig says further,

"Tiger, wait a little, while I put on the armor of my grandfather's time, and then I will return to fight. " Hearing this,

the tiger thinks,

"He is no match for me, let alone in the armor of his grandfather's time.

" So he tells the pig,

"Do as you like!" Then the pig returns to his own cesspit and rolls around in feces, smearing his body with it up to the eyes. Then he goes to the tiger and says, "If you want

to fight, I can fight with you. If not, let me pass. "

On seeing the pig, the tiger thinks, "I never even eat food that has worms in it, in order to protect my teeth, so I certainly won't get close to this foul pig.

" Thinking thus, the tiger tells the pig, "I will let you

pass rather than fight with you. " Having passed, the pig utters a verse to the tiger:

Tiger, you have four feet. I too have four feet.

Come and fight with me!

What do you fear that you walk away? Then, on hearing this, the tiger also utters a verse in response to the pig: Your bristles stand up like a dense forest, You lowest among animals! Go away, pig! Quickly!

The stench of feces is unbearable. Then the pig, boasting, utters another verse: [Citizens of] the two countries of Magadha and Aṅga Will hear that I fought with you. Come and battle with me! What do you fear that you walk away? 531b

533

Hearing this, the tiger uttered another verse: With all the bristles on your body fouled, Your stench chokes me, pig.

If you want to fight for victory,

I now concede you victory.

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, such is also the case with you. If you hold on to this view out of desire, aversion, fear, and delusion, and do not let go of it, you will be subject to immeasurable misfortune and be abhorred by many people, just as the tiger conceded victory to the pig. Having heard this, King Pāyāsi said: When the venerable one told the first parable, about the sun and the moon, I understood it on hearing it and joyfully received it with respect. However, I wanted to get further excellent and wise teachings from the venerable Kumāra Kassapa, and for this reason I asked you again and again. I now go for refuge to the venerable Kumāra Kassapa. Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said,

"Pāyāsi, you should not go to me for refuge. I go to the Buddha for refuge. You too should go to him for refuge. "

King Pāyāsi said:

Venerable sir, I now go for refuge to the Buddha, the Dharma and the community of monks. May the venerable Kumāra Kassapa accept me, on behalf of the Buddha, as a lay follower. From this day forth I take refuge until the end of my life. Venerable Kumāra Kassapa, from this day forth I will practice charity and make merit. Venerable Kumāra Kassapa asked,

"Pāyāsi, you want to practice charity and make merit, but how many people will you give to? And how long will it last?"

King Pāyāsi said,

"I will give to a hundred people or even a thousand people, for one day, two days, or even seven days. "

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

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Division 6

King, if you practice charity and make merit by giving to a hundred people or even a thousand people, for one day, two days, or even seven days, then renunciants and brahmins in the various directions will all hear that King Pāyāsi held on to his view for a long time, but has [now] been refuted, defeated, and made to abandon it by the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa.

Hearing this, people in the various directions will all come from afar. But if within those seven days, some do not get to eat the food that the king gives in faith, then the king will make no merit and will not get to experience long-lasting happiness.

Suppose, King Pāyāsi, [that there are] seeds that are neither broken nor spoiled, neither split nor damaged, not harmed by wind, sun, or water, and that have been stored away safely since the autumn; and suppose that a householder thoroughly ploughs a fertile field. Having thoroughly prepared the land, he sows the seeds at the appropriate time, but there is no timely rain or other supply of water. What do you think, Pāyāsi? Would those seeds germinate and grow?

He replied,

"They would not.

"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, such is also the case with you if you practice charity to produce merit by giving to a hundred people, or even a thousand people, for one day, two days, or even seven days.

Renunciants and brahmins in the various directions will all hear that King Pāyāsi held on to his view for a long time, but has [now] been refuted, defeated, and made to abandon it by the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa. Hearing this, people in the various directions will all come from afar. But if within those seven days, some do not get to eat the almsfood that the king gives in faith, then the king will make no merit and will not get to experience long-lasting happiness. King Pāyāsi asked further,

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa replied:

"Venerable sir, what should I do?"

Pāyāsi, you should practice charity and make merit by providing almsfood constantly. If, King Pāyāsi, you practice charity and make merit 535

531c

532a

by supplying almsfood constantly, then renunciants and brahmins in the various directions will all hear that King Pāyāsi held on to his view for a long time, but has [now] been refuted, defeated, and made to abandon it by the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa. Hearing this, people in the various directions will all come from afar, and will be able to receive the almsfood that the king gives in faith. Then the king will make merit and experience long-lasting happiness.

Suppose, King Pāyāsi, [that there are] seeds that are neither broken nor spoiled, neither split nor damaged, not harmed by wind, sun, or water, and that were stored away safely in the autumn; and suppose that a householder thoroughly ploughs a fertile field. Having thoroughly prepared the land, he sows the seeds at the appropriate time, and there is timely rain or some other supply of water. What do you think, Pāyāsi? Would those seeds germinate and grow?

He replied,

"They would.

"

Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said:

Pāyāsi, such is also the case with you. If you practice charity and make merit by providing almsfood constantly, then renunciants and brahmins in the various directions will all hear that King Pāyāsi held on to his view for a long time, but has [now] been refuted, defeated, and made to abandon it by the renunciant Kumāra Kassapa. Hearing this, people in the various directions will all come from afar, and all of them will be able to receive the almsfood that the king gives in faith. Then the king will make merit and experience long-lasting happiness. Thereupon King Pāyāsi said,

"Venerable sir, from now on I will practice

charity and make merit by providing almsfood constantly. "

Then with innumerable skillful means, Venerable Kumāra Kassapa taught the Dharma to King Pāyāsi and to the brahmins and householders of Setavyā, exhorting, encouraging, and delighting them. Having with innumerable skillful means taught them the Dharma, having exhorted, encouraged, and delighted them, he remained silent.

Then, after Venerable Kumāra Kassapa had taught the Dharma to King Pāyāsi and the brahmins and householders of Setavyā, exhorting, encouraging, 536

Division 6

and delighting them, they got up from their seats, paid homage to Venerable Kumāra Kassapa, circumambulated him three times, and departed. Although King Pāyāsi practiced charity and made merit, [the almsfood included] very bad, coarse, and inferior bean gruel and vegetables, and only one piece of ginger. He also gave coarse and inferior robes. The kitchen supervisor at that time was named Uttara. While practicing charity to produce merit on behalf of King Pāyāsi he asked some elder monks to make this aspiration: "If this charity brings retribution for merit, let King Pāyāsi not experience it either in this life or the next. "

King Pāyāsi heard that Uttara, while practicing charity and making merit, always asked some elder monks to make this aspiration: "If this charity brings retribution for merit, let King Pāyāsi not experience it either in this life or the next.

" Having heard this, he sent for him and asked:

Uttara, is it true that while practicing charity to make merit on my behalf you ask elder monks to make this aspiration, "If this charity

brings retribution for merit, let King Pāyāsi not experience it either in this life or the next"?

Uttara replied:

Yes, your majesty. Why is that? Although your majesty practices charity and makes merit, [the alms include] very bad, coarse, and inferior bean gruel, vegetables, and only one piece of ginger. Your majesty, such food cannot even be touched by hands, much less eaten. [Also] your majesty gives coarse and inferior robes. Your majesty, such robes cannot even be stepped on with one's feet, much less worn. I respect your majesty rather than what is given.

Therefore, your majesty, I do not wish your majesty to experience the retribution for such inferior alms.

On hearing this, King Pāyāsi said,

"Uttara, from now on you should provide food such as I eat and give robes such as I wear. " So, from then on Uttara

provided food such as the king ate and gave robes such as the king wore. Then, because of his supervising the practice of charity for King Pāyāsi, Uttara was reborn at the breaking up of the body, after death, among the four divine kings. King Pāyāsi, for his practice of charity without sincerity, was 537

532b

reborn at the breaking up of the body, after death, in the empty palace of the Acacia Grove. Venerable Gavampati often wandered near the empty palace of the Acacia Grove. Venerable Gavampati saw King Pāyāsi in the distance and asked,

"Who are you?"

King Pāyāsi replied,

"Venerable Gavampati, have you ever heard that

in the continent of Jambudīpa there was a king of Setavyā named Pāyāsi?" Venerable Gavampati replied,

"I have heard that in the continent of Jambudīpa there was a king of Setavyā named Pāyāsi. "

King Pāyāsi said,

"Venerable Gavampati, I was he, originally named

Pāyāsi.

"

Venerable Gavampati asked further:

King Pāyāsi held to this view, this tenet: "There are no future lives; beings are not reborn.

" For what reason was he reborn here in the little empty palace of the Acacia Grove dependent on the four divine kings? King Pāyāsi said:

Venerable Gavampati, I did indeed hold this view, but I had been refuted, defeated, and made to abandon it by the venerable renunciant Kumāra Kassapa. If, Venerable Gavampati, you return to the continent of Jambudīpa, please tell the people in the continent of Jambudīpa that when practicing charity to make merit, they should give with sincerity, give with their own hands, give having gone there themselves, give with steadfast faith, give with understanding of deeds and the results of deeds. Why? So that they may not experience the results of [malpracticed] charity, in the manner of King Pāyāsi of Setavyā. King Pāyāsi was a practitioner of charity, but because he gave without sincerity, he was reborn in the little empty palace of the Acacia Grove, dependent on the four divine kings.

Then Venerable Gavampati consented by remaining silent. Thereafter, on his occasional descents to the continent of Jambudīpa, Venerable Gavampati told people all over the continent of Jambudīpa: Give with sincerity, give with your own hands, give having gone there yourselves, give with steadfast faith, give with understanding of deeds 538

Division 6

and the results of deeds. Why? So that you may not experience the results of [malpracticed] charity, in the manner of King Pāyāsi of Setavyā. King Pāyāsi was a practitioner of charity, but because he gave without sincerity he was reborn [only] in the little empty palace of the Acacia Grove, dependent on the four divine kings. This is what Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said. Having heard what Venerable Kumāra Kassapa said, King Pāyāsi, the brahmins and householders of Setavyā, and the monks were delighted and remembered it well. 539