79. To Sakuḷudāyin 2 (MN79)

Thus I heard:

On one occasion the Blessed One was living at Rājagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrels’ Sanctuary. Now on that occasion the wanderer Sakuḷudāyin was staying in the Wanderers’ Park, the Peacocks’ Sanctuary, with a large following of wanderers.

Then, it being morning, the Blessed One dressed, and taking his bowl and outer robe, he went into Rājagaha for alms. Then he thought:

“It is still too early to wander for alms. Suppose I went to the Wanderers’ Park, the Peacocks’ Sanctuary, to the wanderer Sakuḷudāyin?…”

Then the Blessed One went to Sakuḷudāyin in the Wanderers’ Park, the Peacocks’ Sanctuary. Now on that occasion the wanderer Sakuḷudāyin was seated with a large assembly of wanderers who were shouting, very clamorous and noisy, talking many kinds of vulgar talk, such as talk of kings, robbers, ministers, armies, alarms, battles, food, drink, clothing, beds, garlands, perfumes, relatives, vehicles, villages, towns, cities, countries, women, heroes, Streets, wells, the dead, trifles, the origin of the world, the origin of the sea, whether things are or are not.

The wanderer Sakuḷudāyin saw the Blessed One coming in the distance. Seeing him, he quieted his own assembly thus: “Sirs, be quiet; sirs, make no noise. Here comes the Blessed One. The venerable ones like quiet; they are disciplined in quiet, they commend quiet. Perhaps if he finds our assembly a quiet one, he will think to join us.” Then the wanderers were silent.

The Blessed One went to Sakuḷudāyin the wanderer, who said to him:

“Let the Blessed One come, venerable sir, welcome to the Blessed One; it is long since the Blessed One made an occasion to come here. Let the Blessed One be seated; this seat is ready.”

The Blessed One sat down on the seat made ready and Sakuḷudāyin took another lower seat and sat down at one side. When he had done so, the Blessed One asked him:

“For what talk are you gathered here now, Udāyin? And what was your talk meanwhile which was left unfinished?”

“Let it be, Master Gotama, let the discussion for which we were gathered here now be. Master Gotama can well hear about that later. Venerable sir, when I do not come to this following, then it sits talking many kinds of vulgar talk. When I have come to this following, then it sits looking only to me thus: ‘Let us hear the Dhamma that the monk Udāyin expounds.’ When the Blessed One comes, then both I and this following sit looking only to the Blessed One thus: ‘Let us hear the Dhamma that the Blessed One expounds.’”

“Then Udāyin, it may occur to you to suggest something that I should talk about.”

“Venerable sir, in the last few days there was an Omniscient All-seer who was claiming complete knowledge and vision thus: ‘Whether I am walking or standing or sleeping or waking, my knowledge and vision are continuously, unceasingly maintained.’ When he was asked a question about the past by me, he prevaricated, led the talk aside, and showed anger, hate and surliness. Then it was only about the Blessed One that I felt happy thus: ‘Ah, surely it is the Blessed One, surely it is the Sublime One who is skilled in these dhammas.’”

“But, Udāyin, who was this Omniscient All-seer?”

“It was the (Jain) Nigaṇṭhā Nātaputta, venerable sir.”

“Udāyin, if someone should recollect his manifold past life thus: one birth, two births… thus with all its details and particulars, should he recollect his manifold past life, then either he might ask me a question about the past, or I might ask him a question about the past, and either his answer to my question might commend itself to my mind, or my answer to his question might commend itself to his mind. And if someone with the heavenly eyesight, which is purified and surpasses the human, should see beings, passing away and reappearing… should understand how beings pass on according to their kammas, then either he might ask me a question about the future, or I might ask him a question about the future, and his answer to my question might commend itself to my mind, or my answer to his question might commend itself to his mind.

“Rather let the past be, Udāyin, and let the future be. I shall teach you the Dhamma: When this exists, that comes to be; with the arising of this, that arises. When this does not exist, that does not come to be; with the cessation of this, that ceases.”

“Venerable sir, I cannot even recall with details and particulars all that I have experienced with this personal existence, so how should I recall my manifold past life: one birth, two births… how thus with its details and particulars should I recall my manifold past life as the Blessed One does? And I cannot now even see a midden-goblin, so how should I with the heavenly eyesight, which is purified and surpasses the human, see beings passing away and reappearing… how should I understand how beings pass on according to their kammas, as the Blessed One does? But, venerable sir, when the Blessed One told me: ‘When this exists, that comes to be; with the arising of this, that arises. When this does not exist, that does not come to be; with the cessation of this, that ceases’, that it still more unclear to me. Perhaps, venerable sir, an answer to a question about our own teachers’ doctrine might commend itself to the Blessed One’s mind?”

“Well, Udāyin, how is it then in your own teachers’ doctrine?”

“Venerable sir, it is thus in our own teachers’ doctrine: ‘This possesses the perfect light, this possesses the perfect light.’”

“But, Udāyin, since it is thus in your own teachers’ doctrine: ‘This possesses the perfect light, this possesses the perfect light’, what then is that which possesses the perfect light?”

“Venerable sir, that which possesses the perfect light is that which possesses the light than which there is none other more perfect or excellent.”

“But, Udāyin, what is that which possesses the light than which there is none other more perfect of excellent?”

“Venerable sir, that which possesses the perfect light is that which possesses the light than which there is none other more perfect or excellent.”

“Udāyin, you might continue for a time in this way. You say: ‘Venerable sir, that which possesses the perfect light is that which possesses the light than which there is none other more perfect or excellent’, yet you do not make it known what that is. Suppose a man were to say: ‘I want and desire the beauty who is the fairest in this country’, and then they asked him: ‘Good man, that beauty whom you want and desire, do you know whether she is a warrior-noble or a divine or a burgess or an artisan?’ and he replied: ‘No.’ And then they asked him: ‘Good man, that beauty whom you want and desire, do you know what her name and surname are?… whether she is tall, short or middle height?… whether she is dark or fair or golden-skinned?… what village or town or city she lives in?’ and he replied: ‘No.’ And then they asked him: ‘Good man, do you want and desire what you neither know nor see?’ and he answered: ‘Yes’—what do you think, Udāyin, that being so, would not that man’s talk amount to nonsense?”

“Surely, venerable sir, that being so, that man’s talk would amount to nonsense.”

“But in the same way you, Udāyin, say thus: ‘That which possesses the perfect light is that which possesses the light than which there is none other more perfect or excellent’, yet you do not make it known what that is.”

“Venerable sir, just as a beautiful beryl gem of purest water, eight-facetted, well cut, lying on red brocade, glows and shines, so too is the self having such light that remains sound after death.”

“How do you conceive this, Udāyin? This fine beryl gem of purest water, eight-facetted, well cut, lying on red brocade, which glows and shines, or a glowworm in a pitch-dark night—of these two which has the more outstanding, the more excellent light?”

“The glowworm on a pitch-dark night, venerable sir.”

“How do you conceive this, Udāyin? This glowworm on a pitch-dark night, or an oil-lamp on a pitch-dark night—of these two which has the more outstanding, the more excellent light?”

“The oil-lamp on a pitch-dark night has, venerable sir.”

“How do you conceive this, Udāyin? This oil-lamp on a pitch-dark night or a great bonfire on a pitch-dark night—which of these two has the more outstanding, the more excellent light?”

“The great bonfire on a pitch-dark night has, venerable sir.”

“How do you conceive this, Udāyin? This great bonfire on a pitch-dark night, or the Healing Star at night towards dawn in a clear cloudless sky—of these two which has the more outstanding, the more excellent light?”

“The Healing Star at night towards dawn in a clear cloudless sky has, venerable sir.”

“How do you conceive this, Udāyin? This Healing Star at night towards dawn in a clear cloudless sky, or the Moon on “the Uposatha Day of the Fifteenth full in a clear cloudless midnight sky—of these two which has the more outstanding, the more excellent light?”

“The Moon on the Uposatha Day of the Fifteenth full in a clear cloudless midnight sky has, venerable sir.”

“How do you conceive this, Udāyin? This Moon on the Uposatha day of the Fifteenth full in a clear cloudless midnight sky, or the Sun in the autumn season in the last month of the Rains full in a clear cloudless midday sky—of these two which has the more outstanding, the more excellent light?”

“The sun in the autumn season in the last month of the Rains full in a clear cloudless midday sky has, venerable sir.”

“Further more, Udāyin, many more are the gods who do not make use of the radiance of this moon and sun `than those who do—those I know, yet I do not say that that which possesses the perfect light is that which possesses the light than which there is none other more perfect or excellent. But you, Udāyin, say of that whose quality is inferior to and lower than that of a glowworm that it possesses the perfect light, and yet you do not make known what that it is.”

“The Blessed One has terminated the discussion; the Sublime One has terminated the discussion.”

“But Udāyin, why do you say that?”

“Venerable sir, it is thus in our own teachers’ doctrine: ‘This possesses the perfect light, this possesses the perfect light’. But on being pressed, questioned and cross-questioned about our own teachers’ doctrine by the Blessed One, we are found empty and wanting and in the wrong.”

“How is it, Udāyin, is there an entirely pleasant world? Is there a practical way to realize an entirely pleasant world?”

“Venerable sir, it is thus in our own teachers’ doctrine: ‘There is an entirely pleasant world; there is a practical way to realize an entirely pleasant world.’”

“But, Udāyin, what is that practical way to realize an entirely pleasant world?”

“Here venerable sir, someone abandons killing living beings and abstains from killing living beings; he abandons taking what is not given and abstains from taking what is not given; he abandons misconduct in sexual desires and abstains from misconduct in sexual desires; he abandons false speech and abstains from false speech; or else he undertakes some kind of mortification. This is the practical way to realize the entirely pleasant world.”

“How do you conceive this, Udāyin, on an occasion when he abandons killing living beings and abstains from killing living beings, does his self then feel only pleasure, or both pleasure and pain?”

“Both pleasure and pain, venerable sir.”

“How do you conceive this, Udāyin, on an occasion when he abandons taking what is not given and abstains from taking what is not given, does his self then feel only pleasure, or both pleasure and pain?”

“Both pleasure and pain, venerable sir.”

“How do you conceive this, Udāyin, on an occasion when he abandons misconduct in sexual desires and abstains from misconduct in sexual desires, does his self then feel only pleasure, or both pleasure and pain?”

“Both pleasure and pain, venerable sir.”

“How do you conceive this, Udāyin, on an occasion when he abandons false speech and abstains from false speech, does his self then feel only pleasure, or both pleasure and pain?”

“Both pleasure and pain, venerable sir.”

“How do you conceive this, Udāyin, on an occasion when he undertakes some kind of mortification, does his self feel only pleasure or both pleasure and pain?”

“Both pleasure and pain, venerable sir.”

“How do you conceive this, Udāyin, is there realization of an entirely pleasant world by following a way of mixed pleasure and pain?”

“The Blessed One has terminated the discussion. The Sublime One has terminated the discussion.”

“But, Udāyin, why do you say that?”

“Venerable sir, it is thus in our own teachers’ doctrine: ‘There is an entirely pleasant world; there is a practical way to realize an entirely pleasant world’. But on being pressed and questioned and cross-questioned about our own teachers’ doctrine by the Blessed One, we are found empty and wanting and in the wrong. But how is it, venerable sir, is there an entirely pleasant world? Is there a practical way to realize an entirely pleasant world?”

“There is an entirely pleasant world, Udāyin; there is a practical way to realize an entirely pleasant world.”

“Venerable sir, what is that practical way?”

“Here, Udāyin, quite secluded from sensual desires, secluded from unprofitable dhammas, a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhāna, which is accompanied by initial application and sustained application with happiness and bodily pleasure born of seclusion.

“With the stilling… second jhāna… third jhāna… ‘He has a pleasant abiding who has equanimity and is mindful’.

“This is the practical way to realize an entirely pleasant world.”

“Venerable sir, that is not the practical way to realize an entirely pleasant world; at that point the entirely pleasant world has already been realized.”

“Udāyin, the entirely pleasant world has not already been realized at that point; that is only the practical way to realize an entirely pleasant world.”

When this was said, the wanderer Sakuḷudāyin’s following started shouting, very clamorous and noisy: “We don’t renounce our teachers’ doctrine for this reason; we don’t renounce our teachers’ doctrine for this reason! We know nothing higher than that!”

Then the wanderer Sakuḷudāyin quieted his following, and he asked the Blessed One:

“Venerable sir, at what point is the entirely pleasant world realized?”

“Here, Udāyin, with the abandoning of bodily pleasure and pain, and, with the previous disappearance of mental joy and grief, he enters upon and abides in the fourth jhāna, which has neither-pain-nor-pleasure, and has purity of mindfulness due to equanimity. He consorts, converses and enters into discussion with such gods as have appeared in the entirely pleasant world. It is at this point that the entirely pleasant world has been realized.”

“Then, venerable sir, it must certainly be in order to realize that entirely pleasant world that bhikkhus lead the life divine under the Blessed One?”

“It is not in order to realize that entirely pleasant world that bhikkhus lead the life divine under me. There are other dhammas higher and more sublime in order to realize which bhikkhus lead the life divine under me.”

“What are they, venerable sir?”

“Here, Udāyin, a Tathāgata appears in the world, Arahant and Fully Enlightened, perfect in true knowledge and conduct, sublime, knower of worlds, incomparable leader of men to be tamed, teacher of gods and men, enlightened, blessed.

“He declares this world with its gods, its Māras and its Brahmā Divinities, this generation with its monks and divines, with its kings, and men, which he has himself realized by direct knowledge.

“He teaches Dhamma good in the beginning, good in the middle and good in the end, with the right meaning and phrasing, and he announces a life divine that is utterly perfect and pure.

“A householder or householder’s son or one born in some clan hears that Dhamma. On hearing the Dhamma he acquires faith in the Tathāgata. Possessing that faith, he considers thus: ‘House life is crowded and dirty; life gone forth is wide open. It is not possible, living in a household, to lead a life divine as utterly perfect and pure as a polished shell. Suppose I shaved off hair and beard, put on the yellow cloth, and went forth from the home life into homelessness?’

“And on another occasion, abandoning perhaps a small, perhaps a large fortune, abandoning perhaps a small, perhaps a large circle of relatives, he shaves off hair and beard, puts on the yellow cloth, and goes forth from the home life into homelessness.

“Being thus gone forth and possessing the bhikkhus’ training and way of life, abandoning killing living beings, he becomes one who abstains from killing living beings, with rod and weapon laid aside, gentle and kindly, he abides compassionate to all beings.

“Abandoning taking what is not given, he becomes one who abstains from taking what is not given, taking only what is given, expecting only what is given, he abides pure in himself by not stealing.

“Abandoning what is not the life divine, he becomes one who lives the life divine, who lives apart abstaining from vulgar lechery.

“Abandoning false speech, he becomes one who abstains from false speech, he speaks truth, cleaves to truth, is trustworthy, reliable and undeceiving of the world.

“Abandoning malicious speech, he becomes one who abstains from malicious speech: as one who is neither a repeater elsewhere of what is heard here for the purpose of causing division from these, nor a repeater to these of what is heard elsewhere for the purpose of causing division from those, who is thus a reuniter of the divided, a promoter of friendships, and enjoying concord, rejoicing in concord, delighting in concord, he becomes a speaker of words that promote concord.

“Abandoning harsh speech, he becomes one who abstains from harsh speech: he becomes a speaker of such words as are innocent, pleasing to the ear and lovable, as go to the heart, are civil, desired of many, and dear to many.

“Abandoning gossip, he becomes one who abstains from gossip: as one who tells in season what is true and beneficial and the Dhamma and Discipline, he becomes a speaker of timely words, worth recalling, reasoned, measured and connected with good.

“He becomes one who abstains from injuring seeds and plants.

“He becomes one who eats in only one part of the day, refusing food at night and late meals.

“He becomes one who abstains from dancing, singing, music and theatrical shows.

“He becomes one who abstains from wearing of garlands, smartening with scent and embellishment with unguents.

“He becomes one who abstains from high and large couches.

“He becomes one who abstains from accepting gold and silver.

“He becomes one who abstains from accepting raw corn.

“He becomes one who abstains from accepting raw meat.

“He becomes one who abstains from accepting women and girls.

“He becomes one who abstains from accepting bondswomen and bondsmen.

“He becomes one who abstains from accepting sheep and goats.

“He becomes one who abstains from accepting poultry and pigs.

“He becomes one who abstains from accepting elephants, cattle, horses and mares.

“He becomes one who abstains from accepting fields and lands.

“He becomes one who abstains from going on errands.

“He becomes one who abstains from buying and selling.

“He becomes one who abstains from false weights, false metal and false measures.

“He becomes one who abstains from cheating, deceiving, defrauding and trickery.

“He becomes one who abstains from wounding, murdering, binding brigandage, plunder and violence.

“He becomes one who is content with robes to keep the body, with alms-food to keep the belly: wherever he goes he takes all with him. Just as wherever a winged bird flies it flies using its own wings, so too he becomes one who is content with robes to keep the body, with alms-food to keep the belly: wherever he goes he takes all with him.

“Possessing this store of Noble Ones’ virtue, he feels in himself pleasure that is blameless.

“He becomes one who, on seeing a visible form with the eye, apprehends no signs and features through which, if he left the eye faculty unguarded, evil unprofitable dhammas of covetousness and grief might invade him. He practises the way of restraint, he guards the eye faculty, undertakes the restraint of the eye faculty. On hearing a sound with the ear… On smelling an odour with the nose… On tasting a flavour with the tongue… On touching a tangible with the body… On cognizing a dhamma with the mind… undertakes the restraint of the mind faculty.

“Possessing this Noble Ones’ faculty restraint, he feels in himself pleasure that is blameless.

“He becomes one who acts in full awareness when moving forward and moving backward, who acts in full awareness when looking towards and looking away, who acts in full awareness when flexing and extending, who acts in full awareness when wearing the patched cloak, robes and bowl, who acts in full awareness when eating, drinking, chewing and tasting, who acts in full awareness when evacuating the bowels and making water, who acts in full awareness when walking, standing, sitting, waking up, talking and keeping silent.

“Possessing this store of the Noble Ones’ virtue, and possessing this Noble Ones’ faculty restraint, and possessing this Noble Ones’ mindfulness and full awareness, he resorts to a secluded resting-place—to the forest, a tree-root, a rock, a ravine, a mountain cave, a charnel ground, a woodland solitude, an open space, a heap of straw.

“On return from his alms-round after the meal, he sits down, folding his legs crosswise, setting his body erect, establishing mindfulness before him.

“Having abandoned these five hindrances, defilements of the mind that weaken understanding, quite secluded from sensual desires… first jhāna… with happiness and bodily pleasure born of seclusion. This is a dhamma higher and more sublime, in order to realize which bhikkhus lead the life divine under me.

“Again, with the stilling of initial application… second jhāna… with happiness and pleasure born of concentration. This is a dhamma higher and more sublime, in order to realize which bhikkhus lead the life divine under me.

“Again… third jhāna…

“Again… fourth jhāna… purity of mindfulness due to equanimity. This is a dhamma higher and more sublime in order to realize which bhikkhus lead the life divine under me.

“When his concentrated mind is thus purified… knowledge of recollection of past life… he recollects his manifold past life. This is a dhamma higher and more sublime…

“When his concentrated mind… with the heavenly eyesight… how beings pass on according to their kammas. This is a dhamma higher and more sublime…

“When his concentrated mind… knowledge of exhaustion of taints… There is no more of this to come. This is a dhamma higher and more sublime in order to realize which bhikkhus lead the life divine under me.

“These, Udāyin, are the dhammas higher and more sublime in order to realize which bhikkhus lead the life divine under me.”

When this was said, the wanderer Sakuḷudāyin said to the Blessed One: “Magnificent, venerable sir! Magnificent, Master Gotama! The Dhamma has been made clear in many ways by Master Gotama as though he were righting the overthrown, revealing the hidden, showing the way to one who is lost, holding up a lamp in the dark for those with eyesight to see forms.

“I go to the Blessed One for refuge, venerable sir, and to the Dhamma and to the Sangha of bhikkhus. I would receive the Going-forth under the Blessed One, and I would receive the Full Admission.”

When this was said, the wanderer Sakuḷudāyin’s following addressed him thus: “Let not Master Udāyin lead the life divine under the Blessed One. Let not Master Udāyin who has been a teacher become a pupil. Just as it is with a well-pitcher that has once been a water-jar, so it will be for Master Udāyin. Let not Master Udāyin lead the life divine under the Blessed One. Let not Master Udāyin who has been a teacher become a pupil.”

That is how the wanderer Sakuḷudāyin’s following obstructed his leading the life divine under the Blessed One.

This is an excerpt from A Treasury of the Buddha's Words, a collection of suttas from the Majjhima Nikāya translated by Ven. Nyanamoli Thera and edited by Khantipalo Bhikkhu in 1977.

It was printed in Thailand by Mahāmakut Rājavidyālaya Press for free distribution.