8.3 Of the Pleasures of Sense (KV8.3)

Controverted Point: That the kāma-sphere means only the fivefold pleasures of sense.

Theravādin: You admit, do you not, that desire, intention, zest, and joy, and the passion or lust that is involved in each, are all bound up with the fivefold pleasures of sense? How then can you maintain that the kāma-life is only those pleasures?

Do you mean that human organs of sense are not co-extensive with kāma-life, the five organs of external sense and the co-ordinating sense, or mind? No, you say (meaning only the pleasures of sense in your proposition); but think again as to mind … Yes, you now say, mind is not kāma-life But was it not said by the Exalted One:

Fivefold the world's sense-pleasures be,
And mind as sixth, our lore doth rede.
Whoso therein doth purge desire,
Is thus from ill and sorrow freed?

Hence it cannot be said that the Kāma-life does not include the mind.

Again, can you say that the pleasures of sense amount to a sphere of life, a destiny, a realm of beings, to renewed life, to a matrix, a station for consciousness, an acquiring of individuality? Is there karma leading to them? Are there beings to be reborn in them? Do beings get born, grow old, die, decease, get reborn “in” sense-pleasures? Are there the five aggregates in them? Are they a five-mode existence? Are Buddhas Supreme, Silent Buddhas, Chief Pairs of disciples reborn in them? All these things you can predicate of the “kāma-element”, but not one of them of the pleasures of sense.

Pubbaseliya: But was it not said by the Exalted One:

“Bhikkhus, there are these fivefold kāma-pleasures—which are they? Objects desirable, sweet, agreeable, dear, connected with “kāma”, and seductive, are cognizable by sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch—these are the five kinds of kāma-pleasures”?

Hence surely the kāma-element is only those five.

The Points of Controversy, an English translation of the Pali Abhidhamma Kathāvatthu. Translated by Shwe Zan Aung and C.A.F. Rhys Davids. First published by Pali Text Society, 1915.

This SuttaCentral edition was prepared by Manfred Wierich and Ven. Vimala and proofread by Josephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:

Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.

Cross-references were linked.

Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.

Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.

The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.

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