23.5 Of the Undetermined (KV23.5)

Controverted Point: That the aggregates, elements, controlling powers—all save Ill, is undetermined.

Theravādin: Do you then maintain that the marks of the conditioned are lacking in, say, the material aggregate—that matter is not impermanent, not conditioned, has not arisen because of something, is not liable to decay, to perish, to be devoid of passion, to cessation, to change? Is not the opposite true?

Do you imply that only Ill is caused? Yes? But did not the Exalted One say that whatever was impermanent was Ill? Hence, if this be so, and since matter is impermanent, you cannot maintain that only Ill is determined.

The same argument holds good for the other four aggregates (mental), for all the mechanism of sense, for all controlling powers.

The Points of Controversy, an English translation of the Pali Abhidhamma Kathāvatthu. Translated by Shwe Zan Aung and C.A.F. Rhys Davids. First published by Pali Text Society, 1915.

This SuttaCentral edition was prepared by Manfred Wierich and Ven. Vimala and proofread by Josephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:

Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.

Cross-references were linked.

Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.

Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.

The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.

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