19.5 Of “Thusness” (KV19.5)

Controverted Point: That the fundamental characteristics of all things (sabba-dhamma) are unconditioned.

Theravādin: Do you then identify those fundamental characteristics or “thusness” with Nibbāna, the Shelter … the Goal, the Past-deceased, the Ambrosial? Or are there two “unconditioneds”? You deny both alternatives but you must assent to one or the other. If to the latter, I ask, are there two kinds of Shelters and so on? And is there a boundary or … interstice between them?

Again, assuming a materiality (rūpatā) of matter or body, is not materiality unconditioned? You assent. Then I raise the same difficulties as before.

I raise them, too, if you admit a “hedonality” of feeling, a “perceivability” of perception, a saṅkhāratā or co-efficiency of mental coefficients, a consciousness of being conscious. If all these be unconditioned, are there then six categories of “unconditioneds”?

Uttarāpathaka: But if I am wrong, is the “thusness” of all things the five aggregates taken together?

Theravādin: Yes.

Uttarāpathaka: Then that “thusness” of all things is unconditioned.

The Points of Controversy, an English translation of the Pali Abhidhamma Kathāvatthu. Translated by Shwe Zan Aung and C.A.F. Rhys Davids. First published by Pali Text Society, 1915.

This SuttaCentral edition was prepared by Manfred Wierich and Ven. Vimala and proofread by Josephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:

Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.

Cross-references were linked.

Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.

Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.

The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.

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