18.7 Of Jhāna and its Intervals (KV18.7)

Controverted Point: That there is an intermediate stage between the First and Second Stages.

Theravādin: But this is to imply intervening stages between contact or feeling, or perception …

Again, why deny intermediate stages between Second and Third, or Third and Fourth Jhāna? If you deny them here, you must deny them between First and Second Jhāna.

You cannot maintain the intermediate stages between First and Second Jhāna only, denying the existence of such stages between the others.

You say that concentration of mind accompanied by sustained thought only, without its initial application, constitutes the intermediate stage. But why make an exception in this way? Or why not include the other two forms, accompanied by both or by neither? If you deny that concentration with or without initial and sustained application of thought is a Jhānic interval, why not deny it in the case of concentration without initial application, but with sustentation of thought?

You maintain that in the interval between the manifestation of two stages of Jhāna there is concentration in sustained thought only, without initial application of thought. But while such concentration is proceeding, is not the first Jhāna at an end and the second Jhāna manifested? You assent, but you contradict thus your proposition.

Sammitiya, Andhaka: If we are wrong, does concentration in sustained thought only, without initial application of thought, constitute any one of the Four Jhānas? You say, no. Then it must constitute an interim state—which is what we affirm.

Theravādin: But did not the Exalted One declare three forms of concentration, namely, in both applied and sustained thought, in the latter only, and where there is neither? If so, you cannot single out the second form of concentration as a state intermediate between Jhānas.

The Points of Controversy, an English translation of the Pali Abhidhamma Kathāvatthu. Translated by Shwe Zan Aung and C.A.F. Rhys Davids. First published by Pali Text Society, 1915.

This SuttaCentral edition was prepared by Manfred Wierich and Ven. Vimala and proofread by Josephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:

Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.

Cross-references were linked.

Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.

Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.

The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.

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