13.9 Of the Unmorality of a Natural Desire for Objects of the Mind (KV13.9)

Controverted Point: That to crave for objects of the mind is unmoral.

Theravādin: If that be so, this craving must belong to one of the moral indeterminates—to wit, resultant or inoperative indeterminates—matter, Nibbāna, or the organs and objects of the five senses. But you must deny this as not doctrinal.

Or what reason have you for dissociating this sixth form of taṇhā natural desire or craving from the rest? If you admit that a craving for objects of sight, sound, and so on is immoral, you must admit as much concerning the co-ordination of these.

Did not the Exalted One call craving immoral? Does not this condemn your proposition? Did he not call appetite (or greed) immoral? and is not craving for objects of the mind a kind of greed?

Your contention is that a craving for objects of the mind is an unmoral appetite, but you are not justified in using lobha with this qualification, when in the other five modes of sense it is called immoral.

Again, was it not said by the Exalted One:

“This natural desire is concerned with rebirth, is accompanied by delight and lust, dallying here and there—to wit, desires of sense, desire for rebirth, desire not to live again”? … .

Pubbaseliya: But if I am wrong, is not this threefold craving a craving for certain ideas or mental objects?

Hence surely such a craving is as such immoral.

The Points of Controversy, an English translation of the Pali Abhidhamma Kathāvatthu. Translated by Shwe Zan Aung and C.A.F. Rhys Davids. First published by Pali Text Society, 1915.

This SuttaCentral edition was prepared by Manfred Wierich and Ven. Vimala and proofread by Josephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:

Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.

Cross-references were linked.

Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.

Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.

The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.

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